Ecotec Vs Alloytec SIDI

[harrop.senator]

As a side not on the getrags. Pends how hard you drive it and what your definition of unreliable is. My wifes put 70 thousand kms on her getrag and never had an issue. No bearing whine as of yet and cars got 230,000 kms on it.

Its on its second clutch i cleaned the flywheel up with a wire brush attachment on the grinder and fitted a $145 clutch industries clutch new master and slave after buying it at 160,000kms. It still had heaps of meat on it when i removed it and went to the solid chrome moly flywheel and clutch which cost me $560 as i had to have it mirror balanced for the supercharger motor.

Ive given the car an occasional hard time 2.5k first gear dumps snatching second in the dry and third and fourth gear clutch kicks in the wet no issues.

Only getrags i personally know of that have had issues have been synchros going. Everyone i knew of drove them hard and had worn shifter bushes. In my opinion that would put a lot extra load under hard changes as wont be as precise.

Also theyre only around $800 exchange for a reconned unit if it does start having issues and theyre tiny and take half an hour to remove. Theyre definitely not a perfect transmission but after hearing all the horror stories and then owning one myself as ive had them in a few bmws i can vouch theyre not thattttttt bad.

 

[EYY]

I don't disagree that they 'can' be okay, but there seem to be more bad ones than good ones out there. I had one in my vs and it was sloppy and very noisy. Still drove alright though. Pulled it apart to put new bearings in and the bearings alone from bearing wholesalers were going to be $400+ at trade price because the bearings aren't common. Bought another auto from the wreckers for ~100, converted it to auto and it was good to go again.

 

[harrop.senator]

The sloppy shifters are $6 of nylon bushes they flog out on any external shifter manual transmission. Either turn up some brass ones or if you're really over it you cut the knub off the linkage drill press a hole through it and run a bolt and nut as tight as you can and it moves about 5mm at knob side to side in gear.

Ouch thats pricey for the bearings a friend who rebuilt his bought a kit out of the states designed for a chevy or a bird with same box for about 260 delivered including circlips seals and gaskets.

 

[Murdoch]

The sloppy shifters are $6 of nylon bushes they flog out on any external shifter manual transmission. Either turn up some brass ones or if you're really over it you cut the knub off the linkage drill press a hole through it and run a bolt and nut as tight as you can and it moves about 5mm at knob side to side in gear.

Ouch thats pricey for the bearings a friend who rebuilt his bought a kit out of the states designed for a chevy or a bird with same box for about 260 delivered including circlips seals and gaskets.

Im sure the early ecotecs had a T5 still???
Im sure i have have one of both in previous VS's
getrag was a bit sloppy, are gear ration were very different to the T5. They seemed to be lower ratios
I liked the T5 better anyway. Better feel, more precise.

 

[harrop.senator]

Vs series one had t5 and series 2 and 3 getrag i think. Pends on your opinions i dont like cable clutched transmissions myself. The ford t5z with the hydrauloc clutch are definitely a nicer feeling trans but they stuffed up by changing the selwctor forks from cast to a nylon and they **** themselves.

Ive had a couple of t5s and only manual box Ive ever blown and their was a few of them so could say im biased lol.

You get good stories and bad stories about the both of them neither are a great transmission in my opinion but then again neither are 4l60es

 

[greenacc]

I've had both ALLOY and Ecotec. The Ecotec was great to work on, simple and cheap for parts but I had to work on it three times as much as my alloytec because almost nothing has gone wrong with my alloytec in 7 years, and it was second hand when I got it.

You will learn more with an Ecotec tho

 

[greenacc]

You get good stories and bad stories about the both of them neither are a great transmission in my opinion but then again neither are 4l60es

4L60E's have a lot going for them, it very hard to kill them for a start. You can service them with a $20 socket set and a $20 filter kit and when it eventually croaks you can get it rebuilt into a monster...
AND they come standard with a dipstick!!

 

[harrop.senator]

Fair enough my cars having the transmission rebuilt for the third time with 152ks of life in it from brand new with a motor that probably made 220whp. car will have 340-360 once back on the riad.

Had red alto power packs billet servos moulded piston conversion 2 5/8th inch alto wide kevlar band type of box you pay 2.5k for...

3-4 clutches are dead again, bans fried , toasted the drum it sat on , cracked a piston , broke an accumulator spring and probably a couple other things I'm forgetting about.

If number three goes bang again im just going to throw a 4l80e at it and call it a day. Theyre basically a turbo 400 with od.

 

[rtmpgt]

Re: Alloytecs.

Yes. They can have a shitload of issues with the chains. This comes down to owners mostly treating them like Ecotecs (i.e, basically run it until the oil turns black, and even then, she'll be right mate.)

The truth is, they're not a bad engine if you do a few tweaks to them. Just remember, they're really oil sensitive and you absolutely need to service them every 5,000km.

Other things you need to do:
1: Drill the PCV's inlet and outlet holes one size up on the imperial drill size scale. This'll allow more oil to exit the valve cover that's notorious for causing the stretch issue. (If you crack open any alloytec you'll find scunge showing up more on one side of the engine than the other. this is due to the darker side having a restricted ability to vent positive crankcase pressure)
2: Add a PCV Catch can especially if you have a Direct Injection model as oil gets fed back into the intake for burning. In DI models, because of a lack of fuel cleaning the valves you end up getting all kinds of carboniferous scunge on the intake valves. If so, it's off to the dealer for an expensive carbon cleaning. Prepare your anus for that's a $2000 job.
3: Run a bottle or two of lifter-free when you first get the car. This'll basically clean out the chain guide tensioners and the valvetrain to some degree. Dump the oil at your next oil change (It'll be blacker than Dimmu Borgir at this point, cheeky metal reference), do an oil flush with a cheaper 5W30, run it, dump it again, and then refill with the best goddamn oil you can get your hands on. In this case it's Penrite 5W30(40) Ten Tenths for me. Expensive oil change? You bet your sweet ass, but you can't take any chances with previous owners.

If you want mods? The Ecotec is a much better option. Factory supercharged engine availability? Yep. Easy to fix? You bet your bottom dollar it's easy to fix. Tunability? Well, every man and his dog's built a mangtec skid car, so hell to the yes! Alloytecs are faster and lighter, but not as tunable. They're good if you want a modern, efficient (ish) engine that's got decent mid-range power. They work best with a manual behind them. As for the Ecotec? Auto or manual, it's all good.

 

[EYY]

Re: Alloytecs.

Yes. They can have a shitload of issues with the chains. This comes down to owners mostly treating them like Ecotecs (i.e, basically run it until the oil turns black, and even then, she'll be right mate.)

The truth is, they're not a bad engine if you do a few tweaks to them. Just remember, they're really oil sensitive and you absolutely need to service them every 5,000km.

They DO have a shitload of issues with chains. Early models before chain design revision are pretty well guaranteed to have troubles, and for the later ones it's just luck of the draw.

They're just a poor design. You need to rev them much harder to net the same result as the earlier ecotec. Any mass produced car that needs servicing at 5000km is a joke. They require over 6L of oil for every change, and fully synthetic oil at that. Incredibly inefficient in terms of repair costs (chains, spark plug changes, oil changes and pretty well any other repairs that may be required) due to their design.

Holden REALLY dropped the ball with their decision to run the alloytec. Historically, the engine offerings in commodores were pretty well bulletproof, easy to service, repair and rebuild with little to no special knowledge or tools, AND parts were cheap and accessible. A big, heavy RWD car sold to Aussies who are notoriously hard on their vehicles (not to mention the climate and road conditions) was an incredibly poor move. Sure, 175, 190, 210kw power figures sound good, but torque figures and the rev range they're achieved at is a joke.