I wanna de-stroke a 3.8

[Dr Goggles]

classy

Welcome to two months ago lol. His plan was to drop a class to be more competitive.

Hi All,
now, the landspeed game is broken into blown or unblown ...gas or fuel( gas is what comes out of a pump) and then capacity classes...this is before you worry about body .......

SO ,we are in the Special construction classes.. specifically "Lakester" as we have a specially built car that has no bodywork outside the inner edge of the tyres.....

Then we are in "E" class for 3.01 to 4.3 litres beyond that we alter between Gas and Fuel class( you HAVE to run pump petrol in gas class , fuel can be anything) So although we don't add anything to the tank the Reverend nominates in Fuel class...that way we set records in different classes

This year I set a record at 193.xxxmph in E/GL ( "E" , Gas, Lakester (unblown)).....there are open records in "F" class which is under 3.01liters......we are building the motor to go after records in the smaller class, the record in F/BGL is 210..we might even be good for that when we go to the eaton.......

did anyone understand that?

 

[VNracer34G]

Got it!

That thing rocks and i fully admire your philosophy re working it out and running what ya brung vs. cheque book racing, its what put me off small block chevs years ago when i worked in machine shops - everything to make one go was on a shelf for $$$.

yeah definitely the two peice dog turd seal,

love the look of your 'on/off switch' spose theres slim chance of teasing us with some specs?
I reckon trumpets - short ones even if clearance is an issue - should help the airflow into your throttle bodies - might be worth a coupla MPH at high revs

 

[soop]

I would have thought an intercooled turbo would be better powerwise over a positive displacement charger.

 

[Dr Goggles]

Why?

OK, I'm back again ....I had to leave half way through that last post ....

Soop said we're going down a class to be more competitive ....that's not entirely true. As I was alluding in the earlier post there's lots of classes and to maximise our chances of setting records we look for soft( or open) records that we can run on.

The appeal of going down a class has a few reasons.
1./If you build a hot motor and take some stroke out of it it will rev harder than the full stroke version.There are various reasons they have been discussed above.
2./The Series 1 V6 is about the only motor that will fit in our car (unless we go to bike motors), we have a "bolt in" sitch.
3./ 181 cubic inches is 2 below the class limit.
4./WE WANT TO WHACK ANOTHER BELLYTANK THAT RUNS A TURBO RB.....we figure we have it over them in aero...they've run 211mph...........

OK. Yes VN racer trumpets would probably make a difference but we are dealing with a shitty compromise there.....that scoop that sits over the TB's isn't sealed against them as that would be fatal to the motor leaning it out at speed...the TB's sit just above the body line and there are louvres behind them in the skin to try and keep the air pressure over them somewhere near atmospheric pressure.

To anyone who is wondering it takes a bit of tuning and some serious equipment to make use of ram-air. The real risk is the motor will lean out at hi revs when the MAP goes positive and the injectors don't keep up the pistons will burn really quickly.

The specs for the cam are on page two.

Now, everytime I mention the Eaton I get patted on the head and that's fair enough, It's a little version of old technology that wasn't really race worthy in the first place.......What would be f'in tops would be a big centrifugal, OR a couple of turbos.........
check out this photo...

Yes, nice pyjamas....you can see the rocker covers on either side , that water tank ( the flattop and angled sides between the camera and the motor) touches the skin and sits on the gearbox......check out the roll bar on the firewall and look at the way the body curves in below the midline......there is very very little room in there...room for turbos( once we built the exhaust) but we'd be struggling to build any useful sort of intercooler and it would HAVE to be water to air.....Whereas we can stick an Eaton on it with very little modification......

It may be that in years to come when we've run the course of all the things we're trying to do now that we will build a "grunt" motor a stroker built for torque that'll pull the really low gears we can use in the ten bolt rear that we'll be putting in the car next year..... currently the car runs about 30mph per 1000rpm , a 2.14:1 would take that to 39.....we'd need about 50% more power though .......dum dee dee dah dah:smoking:

 

[VNracer34G]

I'll be making a jig like a dowelling jig., little bit of trickery and a drill press. grind the heads off and point some bolts so I can punch a template of where the holes are and maybe use an old cam to keep it all centred.

Not the kind of job to do with a mate staring at the drill....."nah back a bit, nah forward from there ....um , hang to the left.....yeah there....na na , not there..."




Standing next to "your car" that someone else built ain't the same as standing there with a black fingernail........."yeah mate I worked my guts out in IT to pay a bunch of grease monkeys "....isn't the same as ......" yeah, I built it"

Some people do things because " that's the way everyone does it" , I'm the kind of knob-head who just has to ask why?......why can't we just do this? ....why does it have to be like that?......why pay them X when we can buy the tools to do it for that much?

Why buy a custom destroked crank for $6000 when I can get one from some bloke in Sandusky Ohio for US$65.....

QUOTE]

looking at the pics of the two blocks i'd be lookin real hard at where the oil gallerys run - but you probably already have.

nah mate back a bit :rofl2: hmmm sounds familiar

"yeah i built it" black fingernail + bathed in sweat havent had z's for too long, grimy threads, just made tech in time grinning like a madman cos ya did it against the odds, as you say man "what a ride"

The short throw crank slowing piston speed will be accentuated more with the longer rods required to get the piston up by the deck again which will likely make the inlet ports too large even for your high revs. Maybe 'slabbing' the port floor like is common with the old iron 351C 4V (yeah i know the other camp) could be an idea, could be done easily enough and simple to pin in place from below where theres no water. You'd be able to improve the short side radius, lose hardly any cfm and increase port velocity helping to fill the cylinder. Same deal with the runners in the intake, i personally think they taper out too far too much, looked at playing with this myself but the rules i run under don't allow - i cut the top off a manifold for a looksee any how. If the runners were filled in to mimmick the angle of the port on the head in relation to the gasket face it could help cfm & velocity without such sharp changes in port cross sectional area, the choke point will still be around the pushrod pinch and less chance of the large port 'stalling' on the smaller motor, its not as if the slightly reduced plenum volume would hurt with your setup.

Hopefully i haven't put you to sleep with my ramblings.

 

[Dr Goggles]

Smokin'

Ok...I'm with you, after reading it a few times..... When we first build the "little" motor we'll be using the heads that the Colonel ported which we ran this year, nice job ( just ask him) a general clean up deshroud and particular attention to NOT hogging out the short turn radius.....they have standard valves in them and we ran pressed rockers..they did 193.The word is we can run solid lifters on this years cam(Wade 1365a Hydraulic) if we give them about .008 lash so that's how it'll go together initially...it'll be the heads and cam that ran to 193 this year with as yet undecided comp and a piston rod combo that I ain't lookin' forward to paying for.

There is a concern at the mo that the new cam may give us valve train interference.......I friggin hope not...and I won't know for a few weeks until the Colonel starts on her.......He just had the headers done which is great...the last two years we just had them painted....this year I didn't paint them until the last week before we went...I went down to Autobone and was going through the UHT paint just looking for a nice bright silver ...took a while but I found one...so, I'm in the shed looking over the headers to make sure I haven't missed a bit when I glance at the can...sure, it was with the UHT exhaust paint , it's just that it was vinyl paint.....so, the first time I drive the car up to the start line( 3 miles away) it was like I had a cigarette that had been lit at the wrong end in my mouth and couldn't take it out....everyone at the start line freaked thinking THEIR cars had an electrical fire.......hahahahah, jeez it stank....I think I'm still suffering ill effects from it.

 

[delcowizzid]

yeah be very carefull when turning it over with rods in with that cam the rods tend to get hung up on the cam lobes and need a bit taken out of the rods but dont know how the shorter stroke will effect that

 

[Tsunamix]

I would have thought that you would have run into problems with bore spacings when you shorten the stroke that much.

Maybe it would be worth investigating sleeving instead ?

 

[Tsunamix]

Dude, for your forced inductions et up - consider a Liquid cooled raptor centi super. provides about 80% of the effect of a intercooler, and about 10% of the space. Little lecy water pump cools the centi housing, and drops btu's through a small inline cooler that could be mounted almost anywhere.

As the revs climb, the boost climb - sounds like what you need. Could also consider water injection for the last 20% of cooling. run at plain water, injecting 10% of the actual total delivery delivery rate of the fuel injectors above about 5 psi. so 6 x 36lb injectors at 100% duty cycle would be 6x36x.453 (converting pounds to kg) or about 98 litres per hour. so aim at 9.8 l/hr or about 164 cc / min. If your boosting you will need something like a 70PSI pump through an apeture of about 0.65 mm dia to do this. These are off my head figures so test by running the pump through a .65 nozzle flat out for 15 seconds, weigh it, and multiply x 4 for your per minute rate.

Dont inject below about 5psi boost or you may get some bog down.

Should see an ADDITIONAL delta of about neg 15 degrees c in the plenum.

 

[Matchport]

Was in Bonnevile in September, spoken to Jon Amo from Amo Steel Land Speede Racing Team ( Class F/FS) engine used is a Indy Light, turbo removed and differend pistons, Dr Googles I believe he know you or knows of you, the car did not go over 244.416 mph (record) I have a stage II Indy light engine sitting in our W.shop this engine is a 3.4 ltrs crankshaft stroke is 3.070 bore size 3.8000 I think it is capable of well over 8000 rpm on Methanol 6 throttle body's same engine as the Amo team, you may want to get in touch with this team, good luck with it all.