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The King is dead. Long live the King! RIP Commodore :-(

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by 426Cuda, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Zehq

    Zehq Active Member

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    You sure? I live in the real world with an (average) 14L/100 Commodore, formerly an 11.5L/100 Commodore and have driven a Tiguan for a few months with its 8.5L/100 fuel economy. It had more room, debatable on the comfort, and cost waaaay less to run. It was overall the better car... if you take away performance. For most people performance isn't a factor.

    Now... for those who want a rwd lsd manual 6L v8? Yeah **** yeah Commodore.
     
  2. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    I guess I wasn’t comparing the 6.2L 300kW+ version of the Commodore with the 120-ish kW 4cyl Tiguan ... :)
     
  3. Zehq

    Zehq Active Member

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    The 11.5L/100 Commodore was my 3.6L V6 :)
     
  4. Mayuri Krab

    Mayuri Krab Member

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    I had the displeasure of getting "upgraded" to a Mitsubishi SUV from my Toyota Camry/Subaru Liberty rental for my 6000+km round road trip from Perth to Adelaide (& surroundings)...

    God fark me that was the biggest gutless pos I've ever driven... basically treated the accelerator as an on/off switch, if I needed to accelerate, I floored it.

    Made my dad's diesel 4x4 felt like a performance vehicle... lol

    Thank God my wife dislikes SUVs as much as me and hates a high driving position... she likes it down low.
     
  5. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    :D
     
  6. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

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    Entirely? I say HOLDEN NAME will be gone in the year or so
     
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  7. Crom

    Crom New Member

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    Worked alongside the HSPO transport contract a number of years back. Was amazing how many parts they had for the older variants/previous models. It was explained at the time that Holden "had" to keep a number of years/models worth of components. I can't confirm if that's correct, or who in fact is supposed to enforce that requirement (maybe ACCC?).

    I agree though, they'll be lucky to see out 2020. Dropping back to the SUV/Ute market, in which they are barely competing anyways doesn't look enough to save them.

    *Edit: can't find anything specific on Aus, but the US has legislation requiring parts for every model be available for 10 years.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
  8. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    I think a similar 10 year legal requirement exists here. I've certainly heard it mentioned more than once over the years.
     
  9. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    There are ways around it, though. To give an example, when looking at EB2’s and ED’s for Dad, the cars were 5-6 years old & the spec-levels without Cruise were massively cheaper than those that had it; and all he wanted were aircon & cruise-control. So I asked about the dealer-fit cruise-control option for a GLi; and was told it was no longer available despite the 10yr parts-rule because the supplier had shut down.

    So all that’s heeded is for the supplier to no longer exist, and there’s no need for the importer to carry those parts any more.
     
  10. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they just dont care about the legal side of it.

    Under acl if you buy a new vehicle that is a dud like a engine that is a dud they are supposed to offer you a full refund or a replacement and you decide what you want but what actually happens is they screw you around and then try to make you accept a solution that they want and not what is the legal requirement.

    The accc/oft dont give a **** so if holden pulls out of aus you will probably find gm wont do anything to support the vehicles they leave behind and our money hungry pro business government wont do anything about it because it might upset a political donor for the next round of elections.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
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  11. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    OR GM pulls out and leaves no part support and the ACCC can't do diddly squat against an arrogant American corporate who has no presence in Australia......and MAGA.

    The ACCC isn't sufficiently resourced to do their job in a proactive manner with Australian businesses.
     
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  12. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah ACCC is all good but forcing a hand of an OS Co good luck..... It's a bit like the Government battering on like they do when they say "we will hold the banks to account", pfffft as if, in reality the Gov Depts have SFA sway in being able to force the hand of big Co's and multinationals.
     
  13. chrisp

    chrisp Active Member

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    I suspect (but I don’t actually know) that it’ll probably only be the ‘mission critical’ parts that the manufacturer is obligated to provide for a ‘reasonable period’. I have noticed that non-critical and creature-comfort parts often disappear soon after manufacturing ceases.

    I also suspect (but don’t know!) that manufacturers use third-party/after-market suppliers to fulfill their obligations. e.g. if Repco/Bursons/SuperCheap can supply a suitable part, then the manufacturer doesn’t feel obligated to continue manufacturing that part - and simply refers customers to the aftermarket suppliers.
     
  14. blackve76

    blackve76 Well-Known Member

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    Electric or hydrogen will be the option. People will soon start with cyber truck upgrades etc
     
  15. panhead

    panhead Well-Known Member

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    An actual time period of parts availability for products sold in Australia isn’t legislated, what is required is the manufacturer provides critical parts for a length of time that the consumer would expect as reasonable. That can be interpreted differently by many and a lengthy court case to determine it would usually be out of the reach of most consumers.

    Cosmetic parts will disappear quickly and other parts will be provided by aftermarket suppliers, some parts can be sourced from overseas and that may be the case for many years and often at prices less than what you currently pay through the local dealerships and there will also be the second hand market.

    If you own an older classic or an older car in general you quickly learn how to source.

    If the make and model was reasonably popular then keeping the car running shouldn’t be a problem, finding cosmetic parts will eventually mean deep pockets.

    It’s a bit of a furphy that the ACCC is a toothless tiger, I know from experience from working with a number of multinationals that while those companies still wish to trade in Australia the ACCC still has strong persuasive powers.

    There are some big name companies operating in the Aussie market who employ full time consumer law staff to work with the ACCC on a daily basis due to the ferocity of the ACCC in the background.

    A lot of big companies keep their actual workings and poor consumer policies and failures secret from their customers and the ACCC works constantly in the background to break through these secret barriers to hold them to task.

    Without going into detail there is a lot of poor design allowed into the market that never gets known to the general public but an agreement is reached by the manufacturer and ACCC to correct the problem without destroying the company’s business model.

    To break a company even if its parent is overseas can mean the loss of Aussie jobs, compromises have to be made.

    Could consumer legislation be strengthen to help the ACCC, yes it could.

    Will it be, no because government lobbying is about profits and ultimately jobs and that is how big business works, the consumer is secondary.



    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
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  16. Big Red VF-SII Go-kart

    Big Red VF-SII Go-kart I love puddles.

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    Probably. Given the number of off-their-lollies folk carping here about Holden cars, Holden dealers, Holden parts, Holden techies (etcetera), seems nobody is going to be bereaved when Holden eventually does pull up stumps and walks, yeah?
     
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  17. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    I guess it's a case of what the company once stood for and meant to people, compared to whatever it stands for now. Building the cars locally meant something to a lot of people. Being just another importer doesn't. I also think that people feel GM has basically decided our market is too small and insignificant to bother serving up the best they have. Being one of very few RHD markets doesn't help, either.
     
  18. dgp

    dgp Well-Known Member

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    I was recently in the market for a new car. I usually lease a new car every three years.
    I bought my VFII redline sedan M6 in November 2016, with the intention of paying out the balloon on the lease and keeping it.
    I am getting older (48) with a crook back, so started shopping around for cars. I could have extended the lease on the Redline, but frankly, getting in and out is a bit of a chore for me now.
    I settled on a Tiguan Allspace 162TSI with all the fruit. It is a bit longer than the standard Tiguan, so has more leg room and head room than my Redline. It has all sorts of tech trickery, and I particularly like the digital dash that can be changed to display a full size nav screen. It does miss out on the HUD though, which is disappointing.
    I did shop the dual cabs when looking, sat in the back seat of a few and decided I couldn’t do that to my kids, as well as the stiff ride, no good for me. Another consideration was that unless you have a hard lid, all the shopping has to go in the back seat on the rainy days, and the tub just isn’t really big enough.
    The Tiguan is actually more comfortable on my long drives than the Redline, much more option to get the seat into an optimal driving position and the seating position is better for me with my back issues.
    I’m happy with my choice, I have been driving V6 and V8 commodores for years, yes I will miss the urge of the V8, but times change, people change, and I can sell my Redline and pay a chunk off the mortgage.
     
  19. Big Red VF-SII Go-kart

    Big Red VF-SII Go-kart I love puddles.

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    ˆˆWe have two VeeDubs here, one a Golf TDI wagon (which is filthy inside and ought to be cleaned smartly!), and a black metalllic Tiguan 4-Motion AWD with 7 pews (for a single nurse...). The Tiguan is mighty uncomfortable to me as a driver of average height and lower than average weight (163cm/58.5kg), with nothing to speak of in terms of a compromised back etc. What I strongly dislike with Tiggy is the plethora of lights (like those quite silly "puddle lights") and the inability to turn off the bloody central display, instead putting up with all sorts of blinking, flashing, pulsing, droning interruptions. I have driven it from Melbourne to Bendigo and back, and only switched to the passenger side 70km from home because the seat just didn't agree with me (a ribbed affair which was far too hard, presumably because the Euros have soft bums and need that firmness?). The cockpit of the VFII is probably the most delightfully comfortable and impressive I have seen to date, especially compared to the dated look of the VZ before it.

    Be it noted the VF with HUD can switch to navigation mode on HUD through both DIC and menu control, additional to the centre display.
     
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  20. Big Red VF-SII Go-kart

    Big Red VF-SII Go-kart I love puddles.

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    Holden isn't going to work long-term as an importer: the euro Commodore has failed to win hearts and minds, so it's up to the other utes and SUVs to try and bolster fortunes.

    Yes, it meant a lot to me (and Dad too: if he was still with us he'd drool and blubber and pant and cajole the VFII), the family too, that cars were produced locally, not just Holden, but Ford, Mitsubishi, Toyota etc. (my first car was a Mitsubishi "Sopwith" Sigma that blew up on the Hume Freeway in 1994; I quickly unloaded my bike from the rear rack and left it there, riding 100km home!). The global market has changed dramatically, and the local (fickle) market was always going to be too small and fragmented for so many players and, critically, so very many models of choice; I recall a journalist 20 years ago saying just this, and closing his commentary with the telling remark, "there will be a casualty." All the local marques became just that.
     
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