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The King is dead. Long live the King! RIP Commodore :-(

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by 426Cuda, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    I think you're underestimating the size of the moron & bully markets. Unless Ford, Chrysler &/or GM start importing their overpriced thirsty ugly road-bullies, I reckon there'll be a market big enough to keep HSV going. They don't necessarily have to focus on cheap poorly-made junk base vehicles like Ram, Camaro & Canyonero either; eg. I wonder if they'd be able to do M5 wagons & sell enough to be worthwhile?
     
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  2. panhead

    panhead Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't want HSV to touch my brand new M5 - BMW's M Division do a good enough job as it is and if you want to spend more then buy the Competition Edition.

    Or if you want tuner action then a company like Dinan are world known and their upgraded M cars are already sold through part of the BMW dealer network.

    Plus I seriously don't believe the people interested in shelling out $200k plus for a BMW would want to pay extra to have a 'Bogan' symbol associated with their car.

    Disclaimer: I'm not saying HSV are 'Bogan' but a lot of higher end German car buyers do think that way.

    HSV really need to get a performance car to market to rival the Mustang on price if they wish to sell in numbers.

    It's there small volume high price strategy that's possibly keeping them in business but that can be risky if the competition changes.

    An affordable performance sedan for the family to replace the XR's and SS would be a welcome addition to the market.



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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  3. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Agree, HSV likely has a future building crass SUV’s and trucks ‘cause you can’t underestimate dumb :p

    As for HSV doing whatever it’s doing, they’ve always had some sort of manufacturer support and I can’t see BMW supporting someone other than their M division playing with an M5.
     
  4. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    You and I would think that would be a good idea, but to HSV perhaps not.
    From what I have read they didn't keep any detailed records of the cars that went through their workshops, that was up to customer and enthusiasts to do that.
     
  5. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    BMW won't sell us an M5 wagon, initially because Straya but I think they've just stopped making them full-stop. I think Alpina will sell you the equivalent, and they're a pretty big percentage extra on top of the cost of an M5.

    I was assuming it wouldn't have an HSV badge on it; same as the Dodgey Ram - isn't that actually "PremCar" rather than "HSV" even though it's just a subsidiary?

    Yeah - actually I agree there.
    It was just one front-of-mind example of a hole in the market, though. Pretty sure AMG won't sell you a wagon any more, because it cuts into the bigger margins on their archaic gerlytrux.

    I can't see how you can convert one for less than the Camaro costs to convert (that being the price difference between Mustang & Camaro here); and if one existed that didn't need RHD conversion the manufacturer would almost certainly be already importing it.
     
  6. panhead

    panhead Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been into BMW for a while but it sounds like they're going with the flow.
    There's a big market for SUV's but not for wagons.
    Both my brother-in-laws who were always big BMW fans, sedans, coupés and SUV's got rid of theirs and moved into Cayennes instead.
    It's an everchanging changing market.


    Regardless of whether it's badged or not there are buyers who see the HSV brand as a negative and not the other way round.


    I was in Mercedes-Benz a few weeks back and they still had some very potent AMG wagons in stock, run in quick and grab yourself one.


    That's my point, there is a hole in the market for a 4 door performance car to compete with the Mustang on price as not everyone wants 2 doors.

    The Yanks see performance cars as 2 doors and where Aussies embraced 4, now with no local manufacturing the US preference in cheap performance is what we are stuck with.

    Still that hole in the Aussie market is probably too small for anyone to bother with.





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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  7. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    The Charger would slot right in.
     
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  8. panhead

    panhead Well-Known Member

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    It certainly wouldn't hurt.

    I've always felt it was a better fit than the 300





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  9. immortality

    immortality No more smoky bacon :( Staff Member

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    There are a few getting around my neighbourhood, I think I'd rather the challenger over the Camaro at this point. Fortunately we can get LH drive car here in NZ so we save on that expensive HSV RH drive conversion :)
     
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  10. apollo13

    apollo13 Member

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    Chrysler considered that some years ago. A RHD conversion could be done using the 300C dash. But they estimated they could only sell 1000 a year, not enough to make it worthwhile.
     
  11. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how that volume number changes with the absence of anything similar in the current market ?
     
  12. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    Given that they're pretty much a 20yo design now (wait - is it neary 30? - didn't the E-Class they're based on come out in 1991 or something?), it could be hard to convince people to fork-out Mustang money 'cos it'd be hard to NOT make it feel archaic.

    Yep, agreed. The 300's drug-dealing pimp look wasn't ever going to go down that brilliantly, and the Charger is basically the same car with different panels on the outside.
     
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  13. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Hmmm. I'm a die hard mopar fan. Always have been. There's no 60's or 70's muscle car i'd take over a Hemi or 440 6 Pack Cuda, Challenger, Charger, Dart etc etc. But I've got to say the only thing current Challengers/Chargers have going for them are styling/looks (subjective) and straight line performance. Be it a Scat Pac, Hellcat or Demon. These things go hard. Very hard. It's in their DNA afterall. But (and it pains me to say this) the chassis is a pile of crap and Dodge can't spell build quality nor reliability. Don't get me wrong, i 'd love one too. But, they don't hold a candle to a ZL1 1LE in my book. It's a far more complete package.
     
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  14. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Pity management seem to have lost/dropped the concept of @ “loss leader” halo product when building some strength in a brand. These days it all seems to be sports endorsements of crap products :oops:
     
  15. abuch47

    abuch47 Active Member

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  16. immortality

    immortality No more smoky bacon :( Staff Member

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    Yep, you're right but then we don't drive Commodores either because they are the fastest thing on 4 wheels. I think a Charger/Challenger would be a great touring car.
     
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  17. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    Caddys are like Corvette money in the US; CT5 sounds interesting, but not for ~$170k.
     
  18. abuch47

    abuch47 Active Member

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    starting mrrp of under $40k for ct5

    starting mrrp of just under $30k for challenger/charger
     
  19. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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