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Timing

krusing

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I have just replied, possibly a bit late,
(As I was out on the road today)
But at least the OP can double check the markings/settings before re-assemble or,
Use the information provided if he unfortunately has to pull it down again.
 
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Fu Manchu

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One of the better videos I’ve found.
Another and hopefully it helps. Most of this guys videos are no fuss, get it done style.
 

krusing

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One of the better videos I’ve found.
Another and hopefully it helps. Most of this guys videos are no fuss, get it done style.
Yes,
These guys are very informative.
 

uglyoldfatbastard

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One of the better videos I’ve found.
Another and hopefully it helps. Most of this guys videos are no fuss, get it done style.
Yes and see none of that stupid line it up and take of this chain and then turn the motor and take off another chain.
Someone did it the hard way and everybody followed the instructions even though there was no need and it was right but also wrong when you can have one setting and all chains come off and go back on.
As I said in my first post "There is a big misconception about how to do timing chains." the easy way or the dumbass way take your pick.
 

Skylarking

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Okay so basically


Right now the old chains, tensioners, guides are removed.

The way that I followed was turn the crankshaft clockwise and
Set engine to stage two. Taken off RH chain, tensioner,guide.
Set to “stage one”
Taken primary chain, tensioner but left the guide in still and taken off RB front intermediate sprocket.
Then taken off LH tensioner, guide, LB front intermediate sprocket, then the guide at top of oil pump (in between the two sprockets) then LH chain.

Because people have different views and a way of doing it
I thought it’ll be best to watch and follow one method (my fault) anyways I was watching and followed that step process on it and the person doing it didn’t mention anything about where the cams should be facing and because I relied on that video specifically it was only till late I found out AFTER taking the whole lot out that someone else said that in order to get to phase one set correctly you have to rotate the crank make sure the mark on the oil pump matches the one on the gear set that at the front of the oil pump. Then that’s when I realised I messed up badly till then I haven’t touched it.

I replaced the oil pump too.
Now please don’t be negative to me but I had put it into first gear to crack the harmonic balancer bolt to take the oil pump out and made sure I didn’t move it from where I left it before.
But I hadn’t felt or saw anything going wrong but you can tell me otherwise.
Many ways to skin a cat though I generally prefer the manufacturers specified service process. Why the factory requires this two stage process isn't clear to me but most manufacturers would have some specific reason for doing so. Knowing the reason would be important in deciding which is a better method.

Having said that, I like simplicity so the single stage method that UOFB linked above as it seems more logical to me compared to the factory 2 stage process. The single stage method more aligns with older ways I've done things but how or why the factory chose a 2 stage method is unknown and I don't like unknowns. If any one knows the reason why the factory specifies a two stage process, please share :cool:

Whatever process one chooses, the conventions used can also be confusing but the left and right banks are when viewed from the flywheel (or drivers seat) which is counter intuitive given the cam chains are changed from the front of the engine. Why not simply stick to bank 1 and bank 2 terminology is odd :oops:

Where you are now within the process shouldn't be too complex to sort out as my initial concerns were that the high feature V6's was an interference engine but if the factory procedure has you turning the crank from stage 2 to stage 1 (some 245 degrees) without the right bank cam chain in place then I'd say it must be a non interference engine. @krusing also seems to imply that fact with his comments. Oddly the workshop manual doesn't explicitly clarify this condition which is disappointing but not surprising :rolleyes:

So to answer your initial question, you should be able to turn the cams to get them into the correct position** to move forward with the install. Just make sure it's correct before buttoning everything up. The following video is clear with respect to the staged method and the cam shaft positions throughout the process.


As for other issues, while its all apart you may want to ensure the cam phasers are indeed working correctly. The following shows the check as its easier now than when its all buttoned up and you still expeciance noises on start up.


Seems like a PITA job with the engine still in the car but then again taking the engine out is also a PITA....

Good luck with it...

* I can't say whether turning the inlet cam on it's own could cause an inlet valve to hit an exhaust valve so I'd not want to turn each cam individually. I'd probably remove the main chain and add the left chain on so the inlet and exhaust cams can be turned together via a wrench on the cam shaft itself so that the rear flats end up as desired) .
 

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If any one knows the reason why the factory specifies a two stage process, please share
Because they are assuming that you are going forward and removing the valve train and then the heads.
So if you are dismantling the engine you would need to follow the factory procedure but if all you are doing is replacing chains, guides and oil pump etc then the one stop phase 2 is all you need.
 

krusing

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@Unknownn

Just a follow up to see how you got on ?
Did you get the Timing chains sorted out?
 

Unknownn

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Hello and yes it went well

I cannot thank you guys enough for your responses especially when it’s not negative about me.

All of your responses are VERY informative.

Basically I managed to rotate the LH cams then move the crankshaft so they don’t interfere with each other and because the RH was locked (with the lock tool) it wasn’t interfered when I rotated the engine .
In my case there was no bent valves or anything of that matter.

I checked everything over and markings are good. I rotated the crankshaft multiples times to check operation and all is good. Put everything back together.
Engine came will a few fault codes from first start, I just erased them and tried again and it went very well.
Only issue is LH rocker cover is leaking because of the faulty gasket that oem had given me

But for a first try and “minor” mess up everything went surprisingly well.
 
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krusing

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Well Done,

When you look back, it's that hard after all,
when it's a bit more complex, a bit patience and double checking pays off.
If your not sure what to do from the start, it can be very frustrating,
Just needed the correct information and it all came together. ;)

As for the leaking Cam Cover, check that it's sitting correctly in the groove, [of the cover]
otherwise, remove it, clean it up,
put a lite film of RTV on it [top and bottom], and re-fit it and that should fix that issue.
 
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krusing

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The other thing I would suggest is, Change the Oil and Filter,

After taking the front cover off, which involves removing the water pump,
So possible coolant may have dripped into the sump, and other foreign objects, [old Sealant/Grease/General Gunk] so you would not want that to circulate and block any of the oil galleries, especially the Oil Pump or Chain Tensioners.
Yes, the Oil Filter will stop that, and there is a wire gauze on the pickup,
but best to safe than sorry.
 
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