VF SS wagon manual swap. Is it possible?

[RevNev]

I've drove a few performance Euros and there is something thrilling about those quick autos as they throw you back in the seat during those lightning changes, but and I do mean a big but, I'd rather be a little slower and enjoy the immersion a clutch and manual box gives.

I know I probably sound like dinosaur, but I love that ole fashion engagement.

I like manuals and the traditional clutch and shifter engagement but what I discovered with the M4 BMW DCT in manual mode, it's more mindfully engaging than expected.

In manual mode, they'll only shift back to 1st gear when coming to a complete stop and they won't upshift automatically, so you drive it it like a manual either paddle shift or with the gear stick except for clutchless shifts. It's probably more like the V8 Supercar sequential gearbox.

If you're not focused on what gear you're in like a manual, the car will stay in 5th gear trying to pull out of a 2nd gear corner if you don't change down. The only automatic intervention whilst in motion, is preventing driver shift errors over revving the engine. With the BMW DCT, your head must be in manual focus to drive them in manual mode, otherwise you end up in the wrong gears, make a mess of it and lose composure.

 

[dassaur]

I like manuals and the traditional clutch and shifter engagement but what I discovered with the M4 BMW DCT in manual mode, it's more mindfully engaging than expected.

In manual mode, they'll only shift back to 1st gear when coming to a complete stop and they won't upshift automatically, so you drive it it like a manual either paddle shift or with the gear stick except for clutchless shifts. It's probably more like the V8 Supercar sequential gearbox.

If you're not focused on what gear you're in like a manual, the car will stay in 5th gear trying to pull out of a 2nd gear corner if you don't change down. The only automatic intervention whilst in motion, is preventing driver shift errors over revving the engine. With the BMW DCT, your head must be in manual focus to drive them in manual mode, otherwise you end up in the wrong gears, make a mess of it and lose composure.

The 6l80 can be programmed to behave in the same way!

 

[panhead]

Still stock! I had the Maloo trans done when the engine was tuned, but the MY17 program is much better.
I would love a copy flashed into the other 2 utes.

In that case it sounds like it's a hell of an improvement on the VE's

I had two auto VE's, a Ute and a Calais and I had to have the trans tuned in both to make them feel like a V8 should, and they still weren't perfect but a lot better.

If the tune in the VF is so good, I'm surprised tuners haven't copied it and offer it as a quick flash, it would be a money spinner in my books.



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[panhead]

I like manuals and the traditional clutch and shifter engagement but what I discovered with the M4 BMW DCT in manual mode, it's more mindfully engaging than expected.

In manual mode, they'll only shift back to 1st gear when coming to a complete stop and they won't upshift automatically, so you drive it it like a manual either paddle shift or with the gear stick except for clutchless shifts. It's probably more like the V8 Supercar sequential gearbox.

If you're not focused on what gear you're in like a manual, the car will stay in 5th gear trying to pull out of a 2nd gear corner if you don't change down. The only automatic intervention whilst in motion, is preventing driver shift errors over revving the engine. With the BMW DCT, your head must be in manual focus to drive them in manual mode, otherwise you end up in the wrong gears, make a mess of it and lose composure.

The trans in my two Mercs and my BMW work exactly the same way, you can take them to the redline and they won't shift up, if you hit the limiter then you fall in a hole as the engine management throttles back.

Though my 2010 C63 was awful when I first got it, you would hit the paddleshift then there was a noticeable delay before it shifted, you needed to learn to anticipate the slow shift otherwise you'd hit the limiter, after a couple of years Mercedes got their act together and flashed a new tune into it and it's now lightning quick, not as severe and precise as the BMW but a good strong fast shift all the same.

On those Mercs, I can pull down a gear on the paddles and instantly shred the tyres.





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[lmoengnr]

In that case it sounds like it's a hell of an improvement on the VE's

I had two auto VE's, a Ute and a Calais and I had to have the trans tuned in both to make them feel like a V8 should, and they still weren't perfect but a lot better.

If the tune in the VF is so good, I'm surprised tuners haven't copied it and offer it as a quick flash, it would be a money spinner in my books.



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It's a definite improvement over VE's, not sure if earlier VF's have the same program.
My one little criticism is the upshifts in manual mode could be a bit more 'positive', downshifts are great.

 

[RevNev]

The 6l80 can be programmed to behave in the same way!

Can you tune out the paddle shift delay?

If the tune in the VF is so good, I'm surprised tuners haven't copied it and offer it as a quick flash, it would be a money spinner in my books.

The VF2 trans tune still short shifts, changes into 2nd at 13kmph on light throttle. When would you ever pull 2nd gear at 13kmph taking off in a manual? I reset the 1-2 upshift on my Redline ute to 22kmph and better simulates where you'd change into 2nd with a manual.

 

[dassaur]

Can you tune out the paddle shift delay?

I believe so - I dont seem to have a delay on mine, that being said I've never driven a BMW DCT 'delay' may be a relative term.
my paddle shift shifts the same speed (and in fact uses the same pressures and timing) as having the stick in sports mode with manual shifting enabled'

And to be clear we are talking about a perceived delay in the beginning of a shift rather than the duration/timing of a shift?

 

[RevNev]

I believe so - I dont seem to have a delay on mine, that being said I've never driven a BMW DCT 'delay' may be a relative term.
my paddle shift shifts the same speed (and in fact uses the same pressures and timing) as having the stick in sports mode with manual shifting enabled'

And to be clear we are talking about a perceived delay in the beginning of a shift rather than the duration/timing of a shift?

Yes, the delay time from pulling the paddle to the time the shift begins. It's not massive, but there's a delay and the shift doesn't begin immediately with paddle switching.

The BMW DCT in the M cars shifts like the V8 Supercar sequential gearboxes with no paddle delay. The DCT has no torque converter and has 2 clutches on the main shaft and cluster, it's helical cut manual like gearset internally with shift hubs and synchro's. When you select a gear stationary nothing happens like an auto, and it's like a manual in gear with your foot on the clutch. When you accelerate lightly to take off, the engine RPM drops as the clutch disengages and sounds and feels like a manual at low speed with no auto like converter stall.

The DCT is a bit strange initially as it doesn't behave like an auto we're accustom with and expect to feel.

 

[Smitty]

Can you tune out the paddle shift delay?


The VF2 trans tune still short shifts, changes into 2nd at 13kmph on light throttle. When would you ever pull 2nd gear at 13kmph taking off in a manual? I reset the 1-2 upshift on my Redline ute to 22kmph and better simulates where you'd change into 2nd with a manual.

.... upshift to 2nd at 22kmh? haha
my hand is not even near the lever at that speed in mine (remember its a manual)

1-2 shifts in mine usually happen at 40kmh or more (...a doddle with 1st maxing at about 75kmh at 6800 cutout)

 

[wetwork65]

I dunno if its just me, but when I'm using manual mode, I often get HAL9000 telling me "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that". i.e. DIC saying Shift Denied.
I still have to think for a moment which way is up a gear and down a gear, which still seems back to front to me.
Is there a standard for up/down direction - or do I have muscle memory from another car?