VF2 Motorsport - collectable?

[lockwood]

Given that the Motorsport is a limited edition and supposedly 'collectable', how come there still quite a few available new vehicles for sale around the place?

 

[EternityDre]

Easy, ignorance, most people don't know what it is so the extra price is hard to justify. It's an unbelievable car, if you can afford it go get one. That said, I'm not expecting mine to appreciate but hopefully it will hold its value slightly better given its the last of this type of car (Aussie made NA V8 manual).

 

[SausageFest]

Because it’s an SSVR + sticker pack with an oil cooler for $$$$.

Not really any that stands out. The W1 at least has a different engine.

 

[monstar]

Because it’s an SSVR + sticker pack with an oil cooler for $$$$.

Not really any that stands out. The W1 at least has a different engine.

Nah that’s not the main differentiator, it’s the high tech handling package. That is at least $5k but thing is it’s set up for this car.
Hot wheels stickers are a fun bonus.

 

[Forg]

Given that the Motorsport is a limited edition and supposedly 'collectable', how come there still quite a few available new vehicles for sale around the place?

Because it's expensive, and they made a lot of them.
I think it will take quite some years to whittle down the remaining good-condition lower-mileage cars into a supply<demand situation.

 

[Redline16]

With every second person planning on keeping their car locked up and not driving it, they will be worth SFA. Cars that chase ridiculous money are because back in the day everyone drove their cars like you are supposed to and it ends up being very few and far between that are still mint after 40 years, not because they decided to lock it up in the shed from new. Yeah they will be worth something but not whats been paid for them brand new.

 

[EternityDre]

Because it’s an SSVR + sticker pack with an oil cooler for $$$$.
Not really any that stands out. The W1 at least has a different engine.

This is exactly the ignorance I'm talking about. I'm not going to get angry and write a long response but consider that with a $5k upgrade I basically have the equilavent of a HSV LSA Clubsport but with MRC and for far less money. I basically have a NA version of the HSV GTS with 40 less kw. It's not just a Redline with stickers, MRC is unbelievable, the track spec brakes are godly and all the little extras from the Calais should always be in a top spec Commodore and show just how many things they took out of a standard Redline. Just to reiterate though, I don't expect my MSE to be a collectors item, I'm using it as my daily and drive it hard on mountains, leading to paint chips galore. As a value equation its unrivalled. As a collectors item, I agree, I don't think that's really going to happen, maybe for Directors..

 

[monstar]

Oh yeah, there’s a few grand in these as well (see attached).
Combined the super suspension and these lightweight super discs and there’s your value.
I need new front rotors and am looking into sources for this vs dba T3 4000, soo much lighter / unsprung weight, like the dba T3 5000 series.

So there’s a bit of weight difference 12.1 kg for 4000 series, 9.8 kg for and 9.2 kg for 5000 series.

Spoiler: Rotational Mass, by Magic of Math

Here's the analysis. To keep the math simple, let's assume the following:

1. The diameter of the wheel is 18", or in other words the radius of the wheel (r) is 9 inches, or 3/4 ft.
2. The radius of the tire (R) is one foot.
3. All the weight savings for a 1 pound reduction in wheel weight is concentrated at the outer edge of the rim - that is, 3/4 ft from the center. This is a bit unrealistic, but is the most favorable assumption with respect to trying to show the advantage of reducing rotating mass.

The instantaneous power needed to linearly accelerate a given mass (m) is given by P(linear) = m*a*v, where a = the acceleration, v is the instantaneous velocity.

The power needed to increase the rotational velocity of a wheel is P(rotation) = I*alpha*omega, where I = rotational moment of inertia of the wheel & tire, alpha is the rotational acceleration (in radians per sec squared), and omega is the instantaneous rotational velocity (in radians/sec). Alpha is related to the linear acceleration of the car by a = alpha*R, and omega is related to the car's velocity by v = omega*R. So the power required for rotational acceleration can be expressed in terms of a and v by: P=Iav/R^3. As for the value of I: for a 1 pound mass concentrated at a distance r from the center of rotation, I = mr^2. Putting it together: P(rotation) = I*alpha*omega = mr^2av/R^3. Since r = 3/4 ft and R = 1 ft, that means you have P(rotation) = 9/16 * mav.

Note that P(rotation) is 9/16 of the amount of P(linear). Now if you can save that 1 pound of mass in the wheel you save on the power needed to both spin the wheel up to speed and to acelerate on down the road, so the total savings in power because of the lighter wheel is (1+9/16)*mav, or just more than one and a half times the power savings if the weight was some place other than the wheel. So while saving a pound in the wheel is definitely more advantageous than saving a pound of weight in the rest of the car, it's no more than about 50% better (not 900% better as claimed).

So you save 4-5kg per wheel with the Brembo / 5000 series two piece, means faster damping of vibrations and less transfer of energy from the wheel into the car when you hit a bump.

 

[blackve76]

I don't see them as a good buy to much $$$ for a stock drive train and 1200 build numbers. Drive and enjoy them

Ford did a better job with run out XR6/XR8 sprints as a collectable well down the track.

 

[monstar]

with a $5k upgrade I basically have the equilavent of a HSV LSA Clubsport but with MRC and for far less money. I basically have a NA version of the HSV GTS with 40 less kw.
It's not just a Redline with stickers, MRC is unbelievable, the track spec brakes are godly and all the little extras from the Calais should always be in a top spec Commodore and show just how many things they took out of a standard Redline. Just to reiterate though, I don't expect my MSE to be a collectors item, I'm using it as my daily and drive it hard on mountains, leading to paint chips galore. As a value equation its unrivalled. As a collectors item, I agree, I don't think that's really going to happen, maybe for Directors..

Brilliant argument.

Also the rwkw difference to a Gen-F GTS is comparing an immovable mountain to a unicorn peak, perfect conditions for less than 10 second pull! But simple to top with like less than $10k and remain standout last of breed naturally aspirated in the plethora of forced compliance. NA is more efficient, more practical, more range, much lighter and nimble.
GTS is a black hole of heavy friction costing uneccessary fuel, massive wasted energy everywhere (heat), rubber, pads, rotors, wear, etc., not a practical long term thrash by any stretch.
Ever wondered why there aren’t legendary tales of an LSA cutting the mustard ever in circuit or endurance racing?
Hand-built LS9 in a super light extreme engineered Corvette chassis yes, in our car at infathomable cost to reduce weight and increase thermal efficiency with the W1. Camaro 6 redesigned with high CR, VVT, DI and smaller low friction blower, yes. But LSA ain’t never gonna make it the full 12 rounds competitively.
All I’m saying is makes sense to target GTS-R output (I even matched W1) with lighter all motor, all day, every day, and enjoy years of smart motoring.