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Brake Upgrade

Skylarking

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You will be fine to just bolt them straight on without any other modifications.
To be strictly compliant with regulations since it is classified as a modification, i believe you need to get engineering approval.

I’d think an engineer would look a number of issues including wheel caliper piston volume change when braking (related to pad wear, to master cylinder swept volume and master cylinder reservoir volume). They’d also look at brake bias/ABS/ESC issues.
 

dgp

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To be strictly compliant with regulations since it is classified as a modification, i believe you need to get engineering approval.

I’d think an engineer would look a number of issues including wheel caliper piston volume change when braking (related to pad wear, to master cylinder swept volume and master cylinder reservoir volume). They’d also look at brake bias/ABS/ESC issues.

Ah yes, but that wasn’t the question. The master cylinder on the V8 Calais will be the same bore diameter as the HSV master that the brakes were engineered to be used with and there will not be any change required for brake bias or ABS.
 

kleanphil

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To be strictly compliant with regulations since it is classified
Now I may be wrong on this but I did read someone say that if something was optioned as an upgrade it didn't need a cert . These brakes were used on HSV which is basically an optioned Commodore so what to check is what master is used compared to yours . I do know that Brembo optioned cars have a different master , I think
 

Mattricho

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@mfrancis1990 I recently installed some brembo 6pot front 4pot rear brakes off of a Cadillac CTS-V and when I had them certified the guy asked me if they where fitted to any Holden variant because if there were then I didn’t need a engineers certificate.
Now I don’t know if that includes HSV or not but your profile says you are in Brisbane so maybe give https://www.m1safetycertificates.com.au a call and ask the question.
 

panhead

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@mfrancis1990 I recently installed some brembo 6pot front 4pot rear brakes off of a Cadillac CTS-V and when I had them certified the guy asked me if they where fitted to any Holden variant because if there were then I didn’t need a engineers certificate.
Now I don’t know if that includes HSV or not but your profile says you are in Brisbane so maybe give https://www.m1safetycertificates.com.au a call and ask the question.

I've always been told a HSV is a Commodore and therefore when I've up the size and width for tyres and rims on an SS I'd go 25mm bigger than HSV to stay NSW legal until Holden went staggered with the VF and it didn't matter any more.




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Skylarking

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Ah yes, but that wasn’t the question. The master cylinder on the V8 Calais will be the same bore diameter as the HSV master that the brakes were engineered to be used with and there will not be any change required for brake bias or ABS.
True that certification wasn’t the (direct) question but last I played with brake systems was well before the advent of ABS.

As I understood it back then, the master cylinder bore diameter influences the volume of fluid pushed into the front and read lines which had to marry up with caliper piston movement (volume). The mechanical proportioning valve used two internal pistons and springs within the master cylinder to apportion different line pressure front and back. It was the spring tension that provided the magic that made such happen.

Today, brake bias isn’t solely handled by the mechanical proportioning valve in the master cylinder. Heck, has some makes don’t even have a mechanical proportioning valve any longer as it’s all handled by ABS/EBD. In the VF, brake bias is enhanced/controlled by ABS/EBD unit so it’s a potential programming issue that needs to be considered along with fluid volumes.

So just comparing a master cylinder bore diameter across model variant without looking at other mechanical issues along with the ABS/EBD/ESC calibration side of the equation in our modern cars almost certainly will not be enough.

I’d think it’s a small cost to get a certificate from an engineer and ensure compliance, but hay, it’s not my car and it’s not my insurance policy on the line so what do I know :rolleyes:
 
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Skylarking

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Now I may be wrong on this but I did read someone say that if something was optioned as an upgrade it didn't need a cert . These brakes were used on HSV which is basically an optioned Commodore so what to check is what master is used compared to yours . I do know that Brembo optioned cars have a different master , I think
As I understood years ago, if all the bits associated with some option package in another variant were fully brought across to a variant that didn’t have that package, then you’d not need a certificate. Problem is how will any rego authority or policeman know all the associated bits were brought across fully without some 3rd party documentation to prove it? These days it’s much more bureaucratic as lots of electronics and firmware calibration files are involved o_O it ain’t just hardware :( there are even diverging regulator views on what model variant really means :oops:
 

Ron Burgundy

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Ordered last night online, rang them this morning. Should have the kit middle of next week, installed next Friday. I checked again this morning, this is all AP Racing kit - except the pads which are Ferodo.

Another question I had this morning - do I need to worry about any changes to brake bias or any other settings due to the change in disk and calliper sizes. Does this change anything to do with ABS or the electric park brake.

Thanks.
What state are you in ?
I nsw this needs engeenering certificate to be 100% legal
Unless those specific brakes were offered for your specific car as an option this can't be done as legal modification...
 
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