GM.com - Warning of what to expect now under ACL Warranty now Holden is gone.

[VCoz]

For the majority of cases, its simply the selling dealer that is on the hook for any repair/replacement/refund as required under ACL. The only reason a selling dealers bring Holden into the picture is so that they get directly reimbursed for "warranty" work and thus aren't out of pocket. But that requires the dealer to follow Holden rules and in essence it becomes a distraction.

Since it's normally the selling dealer that will be on the hook, that's why an engine builder would say go to the dealer and jump up and down.

But didn't you buy the car from Holden (the manufacturer), so the selling dealer and the manufacturer are one in the same which is more of a rock and hard place situation that would notmally be the case... End result is too much faffing around since Holden just don't give a ****....

So get a loan, get a lawyer, pay to have the engine stripped down and assessed by an expert in the field who is able to testify as to his findings. Then have the engine rebuilt before you take Holden (the seller) to court with your engineering proof and expert witnesses at the ready along with a full accounting of your defect repair costs and any consequential costs to date (including expert examination and whitness costs, car hire costs during repair, loan establishement costs, interest costs, ect)... Some costs are normally not awarded but Holden is being egedious here and they know the process is costly and banking on you going away... Just like Woolworths tried with NSW fuel contamination... and in the woolworths case the fuel testing and legal costs were awarded (which isnt normally the case)...

Then when you win, as i doubt you'd loose if well prepared, you can freely post the truth on all social media platforms about how unlawful holden behaved...

Best I don't say too much here at this time (I believe a legal outcome will be in our favor) - Selling dealer/intermediary Zupps has been given notice of the matter (legal opinion is both it and GM will be the recipients of legal action) - both have made their own problematic statements re this matter, including Zupps Service Manager that whatever GM says applies so there is no need to bring in the car to be looked at - if GM say there is no noise then there is no noise. 2nd servicing Holden dealer sought pre approval for an engine replacement (since a high cost warranty claim). Appears there are no LS3 engines in Holden's spares to replace it. Appears when GM says bow, the dealers then say how far.
From the start I offered to work with GM and gave the option of a 3rd party expert's opinion deciding up front - GM said they don't accept LS3 experts opinions (appears opinions of anyone who could disagree with theirs are not supported (includes dealers)). The vehicle is our only transport and has more value in one bit (particularly while having full warranty). As soon as any disassembly of the engine by a third party occurs the remaining warranty over the engine is voided - from then on progress stagnation could result and from then on any engine noise evidence after reassembly has no challenge value (post repairers warranty - normally 1 year) - as in NZ the noise alone can demonstrate this is not normal, characteristic .... . Currently ACL is reasonably clear re who is accountable - re who manufactured, touched, serviced the engine when the product does not satisfy defined requirements. Considering Zupps statements, including that they offer no loan vehicle for me, I have to consider the risks, inconvenience and costs of all options - currently much is in motion which just takes time. I have had enough of GM's rubbish - we loved our car but now: who wants a well treated and maintained like new just clicked up 40,000 Km - garaged Calais 6.2 V8 wagon, with extras, under full warranty and that GM has, after thorough inspection, declared 'no LS3 engine problems'? Offers over 70k considered, gee where's the risk to a new owner with current full Manufacturer's Warranty remaining? Alternatively a great base for those to do those cam/power upgrades. For us, we loved it and expected to keep it for many years more - i have no idea what could really replace it today for that cost - bugger you GM Australia for denying relatively low cost repairs and for your bullying and arrogance!!

 

[Skylarking]

Best I don't say too much here at this time (I believe a legal outcome will be in our favor) - Selling dealer/intermediary Zupps has been given notice of the matter (legal opinion is both it and GM will be the recipients of legal action) - both have made their own problematic statements re this matter, including Zupps Service Manager that whatever GM says applies so there is no need to bring in the car to be looked at - if GM say there is no noise then there is no noise. 2nd servicing Holden dealer sought pre approval for an engine replacement (since a high cost warranty claim). Appears there are no LS3 engines in Holden's spares to replace it. Appears when GM says bow, the dealers then say how far.
From the start I offered to work with GM and gave the option of a 3rd party expert's opinion deciding up front - GM said they don't accept LS3 experts opinions (appears opinions of anyone who could disagree with theirs are not supported (includes dealers)). The vehicle is our only transport and has more value in one bit (particularly while having full warranty). As soon as any disassembly of the engine by a third party occurs the remaining warranty over the engine is voided - from then on progress stagnation could result and from then on any engine noise evidence after reassembly has no challenge value (post repairers warranty - normally 1 year) - as in NZ the noise alone can demonstrate this is not normal, characteristic .... . Currently ACL is reasonably clear re who is accountable - re who manufactured, touched, serviced the engine when the product does not satisfy defined requirements. Considering Zupps statements, including that they offer no loan vehicle for me, I have to consider the risks, inconvenience and costs of all options - currently much is in motion which just takes time. I have had enough of GM's rubbish - we loved our car but now: who wants a well treated and maintained like new just clicked up 40,000 Km - garaged Calais 6.2 V8 wagon, with extras, under full warranty and that GM has, after thorough inspection, declared 'no LS3 engine problems'? Offers over 70k considered, gee where's the risk to a new owner with current full Manufacturer's Warranty remaining? Alternatively a great base for those to do those cam/power upgrades. For us, we loved it and expected to keep it for many years more - i have no idea what could really replace it today for that cost - bugger you GM Australia for denying relatively low cost repairs and for your bullying and arrogance!!

it seems Zips and Holden are painting themselves into a corner as the undertaking g was quite clear as to what representations seller and manufacture can make.

The fact that there are no spare parts LS3’s from Holden can work in your favour as the only option may be a quality 3rd party rebuild from a quality engine builder which ain’t cheap. Heck, even Holmart seems out of LS3’s create engines and the L77’s are $16k…

I like the idea of a quality 3rd party rebuild as you can’t discount the fact that a 3rd party engine builder’s warranty may have more value than the remaining Holden warranty…

Best to get out the big FU stick and hit Holden with it as much as is legally possible…

 

[VS 5.0]

Not sure what your correct as I’m aware franchisees have been royally screwed by Holden.

But your quote is too selective and out of context as i said that I thought @VCoz bought the car directly from Holden itself and not through a franchised dealer… hence if that’s true, the seller and the manufacturer are one in the same Pty Ltd and that’s not a nice place for VCoz to be… only able to deal with the one shitbag

I don't recall Holden being engaged in direct retail sales.....hence the franchised dealer network.

 

[Redline457]

it seems Zips and Holden are painting themselves into a corner as the undertaking g was quite clear as to what representations seller and manufacture can make.

The fact that there are no spare parts LS3’s from Holden can work in your favour as the only option may be a quality 3rd party rebuild from a quality engine builder which ain’t cheap. Heck, even Holmart seems out of LS3’s create engines and the L77’s are $16k…

I like the idea of a quality 3rd party rebuild as you can’t discount the fact that a 3rd party engine builder’s warranty may have more value than the remaining Holden warranty…

Best to get out the big FU stick and hit Holden with it as much as is legally possible…

Agree with you Skylarking, exactly what I’m doing getting a quality rebuild

 

[Immortality]

LS3's are sold as crate motors all over the world, getting stock would not be hard. Just because GM don't have stock in aussie doesn't mean it's not available.

I do agree though that a local rebuild is probably preferable.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

How much would rebuild with stock oem parts cost approximately?

 

[Skylarking]

I don't recall Holden being engaged in direct retail sales.....hence the franchised dealer network.

Yeah, VCoz bought from Zupps (old Holden dealer, now GMSV dealer) and not directly from Holden so my error.

I must have been thinking of another jc member as I have a vague recollection someone said they bought their problem commodore for Holden (the manufacturer not the dealer).. And doing such ain’t ideal if you have issues as Holden are much more inclined to play hardball than a new/used car dealer.

In any case I think it’s apparent Holden no longer care about customers, it’s reputation or ongoing sales so will do as little as possible to help owners… Abiding by law also isn’t high on their priority list either… It simply doesn’t bode well for known LS3 issues like piston slap or faulty injector issues going forward

 

[VCoz]

How much would rebuild with stock oem parts cost approximately?

Hi Ron - Minor piston slap is one thing - what is surfacing is another. I'm doing more research (my vehicle was built July/August 2016 Engine No: DGD 1611130122) to seek reasons/links - I will have more currently to post but have more groundwork to do.
One engine builder raised seeing sleeve problems in LS's - don't know details. I noted that your LS3's independent repair raised finding 'oval bores' (while bores are apparently never completely round I question the tolerance you found in a near new or a low Km engine) - have you got the full report re what was found (piston and bore measurements) and did they look closely at your lifters and cam for damage while the heads were off? Did you notice in your research just how so many My16 built VF2's have LS3 cold noises (either Piston Slap or Lifters)? People raise multiple partial repairs and Holden technical assessments being proven incorrect - so quick fix and likely underlying issues not addressed. Surmising only (no evidence) - was there a bad/inferior batch of engines in the early MY2016 builds - or was only one shipment of LS3's brought in for the 2016/2017 final builds and the run of engines changed. To my understanding none of those Mexican built engines put in Holden VF2's remain, or appears no LS3's create engines currently remain in Australia (Holden inventory had a big sale when closing its factory). Do you know the build date for your replacement short motor and did they also compare the bore and piston measurements (compared to your old engine)?
GM post - ' Bought a brand new LS3 block for my build. Double checking bores on block before I do anything and find out main bores are oversize. From what service manual says - main bore is 2.750-2.751. I am getting 2.7518-2.7520. Bores are nice and round just oversize.'

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Apart from that piece of paper i uploaded holden did not provide any other info. I did not ask for it either. I was just happy they replaced it.

My car is June 2016 build. New motor engine code starts with 'ls3' whilst the old ones started with 'dgd'
New motor was assembled with new heads so no info on clearances etc was possible...

 

[Ron Burgundy]

What I know is that in their report they said engine was noisy even at operating temp. This was not the case. Maybe they reported this so that Holden approves new engine ? No idea. They also wrote there issue with oil pressure sensor...This also was not an an issue when the car was dropped off.

Initially they were really keen on rebuild and said there was no guarantee the new engine would not make some noise as well. I agreed to this. Couple days after that they called back and said due to report they got back, they were going to replace the engine.

The new engine came with new harmonic balancer which was then replaced couple months later as it was "wobbly" and it was making noise when cold.

Old engine also had coolant leak on crossover pipe, and 2 leaks at rockers cover....

Apart from small rattling noise on cold start in winter, new engine is fine. It's the same type of noise as the old engine mut MUCH quieter..and goeas away after a few minutes...