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Brake/suspension upgrades in Adelaide

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by Jake Wilson, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Jake Wilson

    Jake Wilson New Member

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    Hey guys,

    Looking for advice on what and where to get some initial mods done to my new (second hand) VF SS (L77 auto motor). Figuring I should start with making sure i have a stable ride and can stop with confidence. I have between about $2k - $5k to spend on just the brakes and suspension first up.

    I assume first port of call would be a 4-piston brembo brake kit upgrade for front and rears, but wondering about the need for a rotor and brake line upgrade to accompany it, and also where to get it done without paying an arm and a leg?

    On top of that a sturdy and more secure ride sound good to me. What are some options for suspension upgrades too and where to get it done.

    I live in the northern suburbs of Adelaide, but im willing to travel to get good value. I can also spend the time hunting down a good online deal for a kit etc. if anyone knows a mechanic thats happy to fit that for me?

    Cheers
     
  2. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    That last sentence is exactly what I was gonna suggest! :)

    Find a good mechanic & you’ll keep going back there, and wonder why on earth you ever bothered with numpties or (worse) dealers.

    You may also find Cadillac CTS-V brakes on eBay, better components again than the Redline stuff available here (but consumables for the Redline or HSV AP brakes are probably easier to obtain ... the federal government’s kowtowing to Gerry Harvey is making it harder to get parts from OS that aren’t available here).
     
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  3. kleanphil

    kleanphil Active Member

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    Somebody posted a link to the Cadillac CTS-V brakes from Amazon , that compared to the Ebay prices were really good , I think it was @Mattricho , I was spewin because I believe the ones I got off ebay were refurbished and not new as advertised and a lot cheaper.

    Just remember , bigger brakes might require different rims and disc uprades.

    EDIT :From what ive read of your post's so far , expect your budget to be blown outa the water real quick
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  4. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Do note that brake upgrades require an engineer sign it off otherwise it is considered an illegal mod which can impact your registration status and your vehicle insurance. So factor that into the cost calculation.

    All this was discussed ad nauseam in a thread, I think started by @Ron Burgundy, some time ago. Had a quick look but didn’t find it.
     
  5. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  6. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ with headaches :eek:
     
  7. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    Still spewing I could not go ahead legally without engineering certificate. Might happen one day...
     
  8. abuch47

    abuch47 Active Member

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    Enhanced automotive have a new tenancy in tea tree gully

    Do the standard OTR, exhaust and tune first. Brakes arent really needed for the street.
     
  9. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    Incorrect in the case of using factory brembos or HSV AP calipers these came ADR cert in Australia on that chassis so can be owner certified. When I was at bosch it's a little muddy wether they say it's okay but as far as rego is concerned it's all good.
     
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  10. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    Honestly the factory brakes are fine if you really need to change just move to the redline package. With suspension just throw some pedders coilovers in, yes there are brands just as good for a little cheaper but warranty is an issue whereas pedders they give you 40k 2 years drive in anytime and get it sorted accross all of Australia which imo is worth the extra.
    You could go custom Bilstien shocks cut and shut into the housings with Eibach springs and have them custom valved and spend 5k on suspension but it's easier just using tried and tested coilovers.

    Stay away from slotted rotors holden tested these for the Redline SS and found standard performed better HSV use them for looks only.
     
  11. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    That's not true for NSW. When I inquired, Service NSW said engineering certificate was required. Same advice was received from Holden Engineer. See my thread I pasted above...
     
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  12. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Your wrong on this Shane. Sadly it's not like the pre ABS/ESC days where it was much simpler.

    These days, with ABS/ESC/etc, specific vehicle variants for a model (commodore sedan as an example) are certified separately from each other by the manufacturer. It's the whole of the vehicle variant that is complied and not individual components. The Road Vehicle Descriptor for each model variant specifies allowable brake, wheel and tyre combinations. Lots of docs sit behind the RVD, as i understand, as model variants can have different components and ESC/ABS calibrations so bits can't be swapped between variants and comply (unless Holden updates the RVD which they wont do).

    The RVD is held by DOTARS and is publicly available. This is the RVD for my Motorsports. If it's not listed on the RVD it's not certified for use on that vehicle, period.

    And because some rego authority allows something, doesn't mean it's correctly following law/policy and it definitely doesn't mean they will always allow it. Just consider what occurred recently with 4WD's that got allowable suspension lift and GVM upgrades only to be retrospectively defected years later when policy changed and rules were more thoroughly followed. This seems to confirm they are getting tougher with following rules rather than relaxing them :oops:

    If you like, you can ring up DOTARS (Vehicle safety standards group) and discuss the compliancing issue w.r.t. wheels and brakes with them (if they talk to you that is as they don't normally deal with the public). Or ring the road authority in your state and ask them. Or better still, simply read the pages of discussion on this issue within Rod's thread which he linked in his post above, it says it all.

    Me, i wont bother going over old ground :p
     
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  13. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    It seems to be handled differently in my State. I held a inspectors stamp for a while.
    If you follow the ruels than any change to a car will affect the stability control. So technically most peoples cars should be defected. Like I said I asked this when I was at bosch and the chief engineer was not very happy with my questioning but I persued him on the matter and said all systems have 10% tolerance which was an off the books answer so they will never officially state that.
    The government is trying to allow modifications on cars as the industry employs so many people which is wht in 2014 they started to write new legislation.
    I still think a redline caliper upgrade would pass owner cert. The day it doesn't is a sad day for our country.
     
  14. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    See last post on page 12 of my thread. It is from Holden Engineer ..

    https://forums.justcommodores.com.a...rake-upgrade-from-ss-to-brembo-brakes.270803/
     
  15. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    Yea it's actually bosch in Melbourne that do the testing I've been in the workshop.
    Yes they only test on a certain platform and say it's not compatible to cover thier arses. But if you follow that train of thought it's $500,000 for calibration and test verification by bosch and yes they will do it for private companies. They had a ford territory in for ABS testing which had an electric motor in it.
    like I said if you follow this by how they say a coilover kit will cost $500,000 for ABS recalibration.

    Now the government can either ban all modification or try and make it more feasible this is an issue the AAAA is heavy on.

    It's an issue where no bureaucrat actually knows the answer and is something that courts would need to take big money to sort out.
    Like I said the goverment is backing the aftermarket because it provides jobs. likely you'll find aftermarket kits have an engineer backing their calipers and holden won't but that aftermarket engineer could be wrong and you will cop the punishment.
    it's such an intensive argument point what do you do? Tell every one to drive a prius? Or find every loophole you can and exploit it and show the man? One loophole is owner cert and at the end of the day it's the RTA that decides whats allowed on the roads not holden.
     
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  16. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    In my case RTA said I needed a letter from holden or have it engineered otherwise it was not legal...
    I don't disagree with your view overall..
    Pencil pushers gone mad...
     
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  17. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, which state? as I suspect the rules have indeed changed.

    As an FYI, I was considering down grading the wheels from 20x9 rear & 20x8.5 front to 19x8 on both front and rear so I can rotate tyres and a slightly more comfortable ride. But even though the later wheel combo is available in SS variant, it’s not compliant on my Motorsport so I can’t use them. I also can’t modify it myself since reducing rim width is illegal and this engineering compliance must do ESC/ABS tests. It’s a little absurd as DOTARS and rego clowns agree that putting **** 20x9 rubber would likely have a bigger impact than putting 19x8 rims with good rubber but them are the rules o_O

    To make it worse, the idiot dealers who put 20” staggered rims on variants that didn’t come with such are also technically not compliant according to DOTARS but to date the rego authorities have been turning a blind eye to such practices. The day may come, just like the 4WD lift saga, the state authorities may change their tune and start to defect vehicles as they strictly follow what is defined in the RVD :eek:

    So that sad day is already here, now :oops:
    Until the RTA changes their mind as occurred in Queensland & WA where modern ECS vehicles with validly modified 50mm lifts were being defected and taken off the road... initially including interstate vehicles which is not much fun when on holidays as some found out. You can google it should be want to read about the absurdities of a bureaucracy :rolleyes:
    Sadly the courts can only apply the law which states vehicles must comply with ADR and certified through DOTARS. Legislators either need to change the law or administrators need to provide better guidance to the states if the law allows. Either case, it will take years to sort out and we’ll never get the freedoms we had in the pre ABS days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  18. Mattricho

    Mattricho Active Member

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    This is the brake kit I got off eBay that I think @kleanphil was talking about. DD588CAB-B532-4349-AC51-1188891850CD.jpeg they are a direct bolt on for your car (you need bigger offset wheels to fit these brakes) I did buy all new hardware from Holden for when I installed the new brakes.

    I also just had some MCA Street Essentials fitted and im happy with the results just make sure you check with the installers about the rear damper adjustment because the MCA has top Mount adjustment for front and rear so you need damper adjuster extensions.

    I can’t help with legality’s at all but I did hear somewhere that as long as you don’t change the brake master cylinder you don’t need to do anything engineering related (I live in QLD if that makes a difference).
     
  19. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Active Member

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    I'm in ACT and that wheel change would be compliant here. Yea heard about QLD but there are some arguments against them. Like I said in 2014 the Federal goverment started a guideline but as far as I'm aware they're still writing it.
     
  20. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Queensland seem more stringent than most states so I’d be surprised engineering would not be required when modifying a braking system. And as a braking system matches fluid volumes between master cylinder stroke and calliper stroke front and back, I doubt a rule as you described exists. Get the volume issue wrong and you’ve got a serious safety problem.

    Maybe ignorance works and asking for forgiveness is better than asking for permission ;)

    Regardless, I like the brakes you installed :)
     

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