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Fuel injector failure

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by jono67, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ Yes, the manufacturer has some obligations to the seller clearly spelt out in ACL...

    My comment was from a customer perspective where such issues are less relevant (though good to know).
     
  2. jono67

    jono67 Active Member

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    Appreciate the info guys, it will certainly help me when I eventually speak to someone. I fired off my complaint to Holden and they have come back to me saying that they need to investigate further, asked me to confirm a few of the vehicles details, and to expect a call. Lets see what transpires.
     
  3. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Hi guys i have had the same problem with my 15 vf1 redline. Check engine light on. Diagnosed code error as injecter. Off to a supplier. The guy laughed as he cannot keep up with bosch injecters for the 6l and 6.2. It is an electrical/resistance issue and is not a clog or clean problem. Bloody bosch. I will let you know how i go. I am getting all 7 good ones resistance tested when they replace the failed injecter.
     
  4. jono67

    jono67 Active Member

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    So Tumble_roll, when you said off to a "supplier", do you mean a Holden dealer or a spare parts place?

    Holden are still "processing" my claim by the way.
     
  5. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    By parts supplier i mean a EFI, carb and ignition parts specialist. They specialise in Bosch. Not holden. Originally I was just going to change the defective injecter myself until this additional info came to light. The other 7 have now been checked and i can confirm they all tested ok .. i was advised another injecter is within tolerances but is on its way out too (tested at 15 ohms and should be 12 apparantly)
     
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  6. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Jono also you mentioned holden told you seimens was the brand who makes the injecter. My "specialist" parts supplier told me that only bosch brand make a injecter for L98/L77/LS3 engines??. Would be nice if someone in the forum who knows about injecters could confirm which of the two of us is being told porkys by our "specialists". BTW mate my build is feb 15 redline. Good luck with your complimentary fix claim. Like to hear how it pans out for you.
     
  7. Graham Spence

    Graham Spence New Member

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    Am new to this but it seems that I am having similar problems with faulty injector .My drive is a 2016 SSV RL Ute 6.2 l Gen 1V.Have had the car back to the dealer 3 times with ESP fault The fault originally occured at start up with the motor running rough and then corrected after driving for a couple of minutes . I think the dealer simply rebooted the computer and sent me on my way with the comment that the problem was fixed ?? .Today the problem surfaced again and the motor was running rough and not self fixing . Drove to the workshop and parked the car with the motor running like a dog and various warning indicators displayed . They took my complaint a bit more seriously and have now told me their is a fault with injector cylinder 8 . They have also told me that their is a 3 week wait for new part .Merry Xmas Holidays!!!. I have lodged a complaint with Holden head office and await there response within their 24-48 hr timeframe. Can anyone help with answering should all the injectors be replaced or just the current faulty one .My gut feeling is that they should all be replaced . When searching for the injectors online the after market ones all seem to mention that it is best to purchase a matched set .I will let you know my response from Holden as I have know got the shits because these issues have now stuffed my touring holiday to see family and frinds interstate for xmas .
     
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  8. tml678

    tml678 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what more you expect them to do over the Christmas break? All upstream suppliers will have pulled the pin for the holidays by now, and somebody else in this thread has their car in dry dock at a dealers (and has done for a little while) waiting for them to come from overseas..

    I get it's frustrating, but you say they are taking you more seriously, it's just unfortunate it's happened at this time of year.

    To answer your question, I think you'll be pushing the proverbial uphill if you expect them to replace all of them. Car companies aren't in the business of preventative maintenance when it's on their dime.
     
  9. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Mate you have nailed it. Runs rough occassionally on startup.. especially on cold days. Rough then corrects.. the above occassional start up style finally for me got bad enough to trigger a check engine light/error code to find. Interesting for me no other codes like check esp light was also triggered for me. Cheers mate..

    Btw i got a po206 error code on clyl 6.
     
  10. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Active Member

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    My injectors on my l77 are ac delco part number 12639221 i just bought 2 from america
     
  11. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Cheers mate, How old is your vehicle for you to also require the purchase of new injecters? How many ks should you get from a rail of injecters ???? My my15 ssv r has 38000ks on it ..why am i experiencing injecter problems. ??
    My understaning is if you can clean them/remove varnish etc then do that. And you replace them when they fail electrical testing. I guess my big question for HOLDEN is what brand of injecter was fitted to my15 ss and v/r commodores at that time. Can anyone confirm if they were stock BOSCH ??? cheers
     
  12. Wayne001

    Wayne001 Active Member

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    2013 vf calais, 86000 klm . The injectors will have some numbers on them .
     

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  13. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    If the injectors have some design fault that leads them to premature failure, Holden will have to fix the other injectors when they fail before they would have done so in the normal scheme of things. Keeping in mind that injectors should last the life of the car, it would be in Holdens interest to do the job once and fix it for good. It’s a cost that Holden can recoup from Bosch, if they are the supplier of these problem injectors, so it may not be as much of an uphill push as one would initially think.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  14. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Active Member

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    Last week the same issue started happening on my Redline vf2 2016 with 59000km.
    The day it started, I checked the codes and I got:
    P0208 - Powertrain Injector Circuit - cylinder 8
    P0307 - Powertrain Cylinder 8 Misfire

    The idle was very rough but it got better after warm up.

    After a few Re starts the engine light went away but the idle is a bit rough.

    I started to monitor the cylinder misfires (actuall and history). Cylinder 6 has a few misfires from time to time but 8 has misfires everytime it is idling. It doesn’t misfires under load. Maybe because the ecu can not detect the misfire on higher engine speeds.

    Fuel trims are looking fine, so I assume the issue is not that bad. If the injector was completely of all the time the fuel trim would be putting lots of fuel to compensate for the misfire.

    The O2 sensors readings on bank2, were Cyl8 is, look much more erratic on idle than O2 bank 1 . When plotting it you can see the ecu fighting to keep a nice oscillating AFR. Under load they both look the same. It makes me wonder if the injector is leaking and that is the reason you can see the sintoms when idling.
    B2F47799-2471-4AE7-82DF-6E79F78A20E2.jpeg

    I swapped spark plug and leads between cyl8 and cyl4 just in case and the issue remained on cylinder 8.

    I was about to swap the coil packs but I will let the rest of the troubleshooting to Holden as it is still under warranty.


    I am using the Torque App and a OBDII Bluetooth dongle. It is very simple to use and I would advise everyone to have some kind of scanner specially those out of warranty.

    Let see what Holden will say
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  15. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Active Member

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    I couldn't help my self and continued troubleshooting.

    Tried to listen to the injector with a long screw driver but it didn't sound different from the other injectors. On the scanner was misfiring but very little so i think it would be impossible to me to identify a missing click out of so many.

    Measure resistance on all injectors
    1= 14.4 ohms
    3= 14.4 ohms
    5= 16 ohms
    7= 14.4 ohms

    2= 14.4 ohms
    4= 14.4 ohms
    6 = 20 ohms no signs of pin corrosion
    8 = 40 ohms no signs of pin corrosion

    The service manual states that if the impedance is not between 11 and 14 it should be replaced.

    In order not to waste time, It feels like calling Holden and asking them to have injectors on hand otherwise I won't take the car.


    I have attached a log from TorqueApp in case anyone is interested. Bank 2 fuel trim looks better than the bank 1 which is most of the time between -5% and 9%
     

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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  16. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Thanks Dan, interesting. I wonder just how many rough starts can be put down to faulty injecters. And how many times has holden kept misdiagnosing this real rought start problem. My injecters fitted stock to the car were/are bosch including the one that was replaced . Crappy bosch. I have heard that there is trouble with their o2 sensors too.
     
  17. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Cheers mate for the consumer law advice.. rough and sloppy start could result in poor acceleration and restrict a drivers response when/ is required..for example when entering/accelerating into a fast moving traffic flow/highway. this sounds like a safety problem developing to me which holden should investigate and deal with as a SAFETY RECALL in my opinion.
     
  18. tommac61

    tommac61 New Member

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    Hi All,

    I just had a 8 injectors replaced free by Holden on my 2016 WN Caprice, just on 73000km.
    It’s had a rough idle for a while, but once the weather here went over 30 deg the Chk engine and esp warnings came up and it was missing quite severely.
    Interesting enough, the lights did disappear as the heatwave passed, missing diminished but did not completely disappear. Cold start had a silky smooth idle, once car was hot (I have a 35km run to work) the missing and rough idle became apparent
    Service manager said this was an issue being addressed with a full replacement of all injectors, there could be a long wait though as my issue started in mid November and has only just been fixed.
     
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  19. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Cheers mate.. is this a bigger issue which is developing here ?
    How many others out there is experiencing similar and difficult to diagnose the same frustrating rough start up issues ? Lots of rough starts and no codes triggered such as a check engine or esp light.. ?????

    How can this rough/poor startup and the possible injecter issue be communicated to the broader just commodores forum community.. ???.
    I am new to the forum but it sounds like HOLDEN knows about the issue based from some of the commentary from this thread

    Look out HOLDEN 2019. look for my letter. Not happy..
     
  20. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    I saw your post in the VE thread.

    Given you have a Series I which I expect will be flex fuel, have you been running 98 fuel ?

    If so, have you tried 95 ?
     

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