Help Help Help 2006 VE on going saga it's dead

[gazzat]

Hi Guys, Well this VE is proving to be be so frustrating. I will start from the beginning for new readers. OK just brought this car as a run around while i rebuild my Pajero motor but now this VE is taking more time and the Pajero is suffering, i really wish i did not buy this VE. OK out driving and all of a sudden chimes and bells and warnings on the IC, indicating ABS, Traction stability control. OK got home threw the scanner on and got the P0500 code, delved a bit deeper and all of a sudden all 4 wheel sensors decided to go on strike,tools down walked of the job. Ok, i thought no drama it's only for people who are inexperienced or want to push their car to the limits so i just kept driving. Anyway one day driving along another code popped up about the "F" pole on the alternator is to high, charging up to as high as 16V on a few occasions (i was monitoring the charge rate whilst driving) so after a few days waiting for the new alternator to arrive it turned up and i threw it in, OBDII port says all OK (except for the P0500 code) in engineering mode whilst driving voltage stabilized at 14.4 V so all good.So a lot of people were saying about must have a good batteries with these VE (with the battery in the boot,What a crazy idea) So ok decided (even though i checked my battery showed up good but it was the wrong size for the car) to buy the recommended battery for the car (because i had a couple of times it went into limp mode, just threw a warning on the screen CONTACT DEALER), anyway threw the new battery in and fingers crossed would fix up the ABS & traction control and limp mode but no luck and i then noticed that i lost the VSS on the OBDII port,tried 2 scanners and no read out but have a read out on the IC. NOW i am really desperate as of the 7/3/2024 was just driving along and it stopped (right in a road construction zone with the boom gates) anyway it would not start so some blokes come over to find out why we were blocking traffic, explained things to them and they bought over another battery and we jumped start it. So we got it home as we only had to drive a few hundred metres down the rd. Upon getting home turned the key of and waited like 10 seconds and tried to start it, no go just the stater clicking away. So checked the voltage and my brandnew battery 2 weeks old was only showing 11.3V so i put the jumper leads on under the bonnet and it started but runs and idles rough. OK turned off and diconnected the jumpers and tried to start ,NO LUCK, put the leads back on and started,it seems without the extra battery the starter takes too much current and wont handle the electronics for the rest of the car, So by now a numerous starting and testing the batteries were getting low so i checked the out put on the alternator battery pole and it was only showing just over 10V (this is a brand new unit and you can watch the voltage dropping down whilst the enginge is runing i guess the battery power is servicing what electrical components it can handle until it gets to low and then the motor just shuts down) so something is really wrong, OH i forgot to mention now that when i turn the key on for a microsecond the IC needles give a quick reverse direction and the back to where they should be and the little display window on the IC just disappears and if i put it into engineering mode and then try and start the car the windows disappeears and when it comes back on it start of with the "WELCOME" screen and start it self check so by turning the key there is a total power loss to the IC and what ever else, Oh another thing is now and again i get a code i cant remember at the top of my head but something about a voltage difference on the throttle position sensor between 'D'/'E' so i got another accelerator pedal whack it in but still has same trouble, so many things i think its better to bite the bullet and scrap it.So before doing that i wish to ask if any one that has a good sort of high end scanner that could come and run a diagnostics on it for me. now i'm not asking for a freebie and willing to pay a figure but i not pay the high end fees the some dealers and auto shops want, but if any anyone can hel me (and naturally i cant drive the car to you) but i live out near Liverpool way NSW near where they are doing all the rd construction at Elizabeth Drive and Walgrove Rd. So to be boring and reading the short novel but as i say i brought this 2nd hand and dont know the history, but when i got it it had this new looking battery in it so i thought Ahh thats good and yester day when the starter was clicking away i thought ok it's a new battery so maybe yhe starter has chucked it in, alas when i pulled it out it is a BRAND NEW starter so it looks like this has been a troublesome car and the previous owner just got things working enough to take it for a test drive and appeared to be ok and i brought it and its turen out to be a real lemon.Cheers Garry

 

[chrisp]

That’s a lot of reading for one paragraph. Without going through it again with a fine tooth comb to pick out the relevant technical info, it does seem like there might be an issue with the battery connections between the rear and the front of the car. I’m basing this off the car ‘jump starting’ from the front, but not the rear - if I read that correctly?

So, I’d be doing some battery voltage measurements. Measure the voltage directly at the battery and compare that to the voltage at the jump terminal at the front (and perhaps also at the alternator). Those voltages should be within about 0.5V.

I vaguely recall that there is a well known issue with the battery cable/s within the body of the VE/VF. I think is with a connection in the battery cable within the cabin, but I’m not sure on that.

 

[lout]

thanks chrisp
i went into a coma when i looked at post
have a good look at positive cable connector through firewall behind glovebox

 

[gazzat]

That’s a lot of reading for one paragraph. Without going through it again with a fine tooth comb to pick out the relevant technical info, it does seem like there might be an issue with the battery connections between the rear and the front of the car. I’m basing this off the car ‘jump starting’ from the front, but not the rear - if I read that correctly?

So, I’d be doing some battery voltage measurements. Measure the voltage directly at the battery and compare that to the voltage at the jump terminal at the front (and perhaps also at the alternator). Those voltages should be within about 0.5V.

I vaguely recall that there is a well known issue with the battery cable/s within the body of the VE/VF. I think is with a connection in the battery cable within the cabin, but I’m not sure on that.

Hi Chris, yes its a good bedtime story to put you to sleep. one thing they recommend is that never jump start from the battery in the boot.they built those jump post under the bonnet for a reason,use them, brand new battery as i say with brand new terminals and voltage difference between the battery post and jumper post is that minute you wouldn't worry about it, it is less then the 0.5V even at the alternator post that might be near the 0.3V but once again that minute not worth the worry.Yes you are quite correct and if you have read my other post i comment there on brain dead 6 figure designer come up with such an idiot idea to do that , but true the battery is in the P/S inner well between the inner and outer guard and then they run a heavy duty cable from there under the rear seat then along the sill up behind the P /S kick panel then up a bit more roughly just above the hinge height of the glove box then thru a bolt thru the firewall to the red post near the P/S coil strut, masterful plan, but as i say when i put the new battery and new alternator the car was good, it would start under its own power alternator was charging 14.4-14.5 v.Now when the new battery drops down to 11+v it wont start the car the starter solenoid but then the starter just clicks as the typical flat battery sound thats when i have to use the jumper battery on the post and it will start but the new alternator is only showing 10+v its like the stator windings windings is not getting enough power to create an EF big enough to create an ac to the rectifier. i hope that makes a bit of sense . cheers garry

 

[gazzat]

thanks chrisp
i went into a coma when i looked at post
have a good look at positive cable connector through firewall behind glovebox

Hi lout, you may have read my reply to chris so i have that area and other ares covered in that reply. thanks anyway. cheers garry

 

[lmoengnr]

A VE battery needs more than 12 volts to have any chance of starting the engine.
As suggested by @lout, check the cable firewall connector, under the dash, forward of the glovebox.

 

[gazzat]

A VE battery needs more than 12 volts to have any chance of starting the engine.

yep well aware of that, that is why i got the recommended brand new battery as well as my alternator was sometimes charging up to 16v so i have also brought a brand new alternator . so when i put them all in i checked the alternator out put and it was 14.4-14.5v now its only showing 10+v and that's when i have to jump start it, it seems the f pin on the alternator may not be getting the proper voltage for the proper stator excitement.i know it was a long post i put out there but there is a lot going on with it,especially now why does my IC needle go backward for a few milleseconds and why does my little green welcome screen go totally black for about the same time, plus lots mor. cheers mate

 

[lmoengnr]

yep well aware of that, that is why i got the recommended brand new battery as well as my alternator was sometimes charging up to 16v so i have also brought a brand new alternator . so when i put them all in i checked the alternator out put and it was 14.4-14.5v now its only showing 10+v and that's when i have to jump start it, it seems the f pin on the alternator may not be getting the proper voltage for the proper stator excitement.i know it was a long post i put out there but there is a lot going on with it,especially now why does my IC needle go backward for a few milleseconds and why does my little green welcome screen go totally black for about the same time, plus lots mor. cheers mate

Okay, you have a charging problem, with a new battery and a new alternator.

This is why we would like you to check the firewall cable connector.
If the connector is loose, it will cause a high resistance joint, and will cause a charging problem.
If you search through the forums, you will find this problem has caused quite a few problems.

If it is tight, fine, that will eliminate one problem.

 

[chrisp]

Hi Chris, yes its a good bedtime story to put you to sleep. one thing they recommend is that never jump start from the battery in the boot.they built those jump post under the bonnet for a reason,use them, brand new battery as i say with brand new terminals and voltage difference between the battery post and jumper post is that minute you wouldn't worry about it, it is less then the 0.5V even at the alternator post that might be near the 0.3V but once again that minute not worth the worry.Yes you are quite correct and if you have read my other post i comment there on brain dead 6 figure designer come up with such an idiot idea to do that , but true the battery is in the P/S inner well between the inner and outer guard and then they run a heavy duty cable from there under the rear seat then along the sill up behind the P /S kick panel then up a bit more roughly just above the hinge height of the glove box then thru a bolt thru the firewall to the red post near the P/S coil strut, masterful plan, but as i say when i put the new battery and new alternator the car was good, it would start under its own power alternator was charging 14.4-14.5 v.Now when the new battery drops down to 11+v it wont start the car the starter solenoid but then the starter just clicks as the typical flat battery sound thats when i have to use the jumper battery on the post and it will start but the new alternator is only showing 10+v its like the stator windings windings is not getting enough power to create an EF big enough to create an ac to the rectifier. i hope that makes a bit of sense . cheers garry

I’m not quite sure if I have fully detailed what to check…

Without worrying about the alternator (for now), I was suggesting that the issue is a poor connection at the firewall feed-through connection (as specified by @lout ). When checking the voltages, they really need to be checked under load. They’ll read much the same when there is very little load.

So, when attempting to start the car (a very heavy load), check the voltage at the front (say the ‘jump start posts‘).

And then do the same again but check the voltage at the battery this time. If the battery voltage holds up reasonably well (say, 10+ Volt under cranking), but the voltage at the front crashes (say less than 8 V), then check the connections between the two.

(Edit) But you will need a charged battery to do this test.

 

[chrisp]

And if you want a long and detailed read, have a read of my recommendations on (not) jump starting cars… https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/starting-your-car-with-a-flat-battery.302868/