Sudden Loss of Power Steering WHEN DRIVING

[tabac]

hey all

got the car back today they replaced the steering rack and done a wheel alingment all covered under warrantry, heres the invoice for referance,

 

[Pablito]

The age of the vehicle is totally relevant,

The point i was trying to make is it shouldn't matter what age the car is . If the car is 1 week old or 5 years old, Holden should be replacing the steering racks for free as they are a design fault, not a wear and tear fault. In other words, if they built it right in the first place we wouldn't be having this problem.

 

[Skylarking]

I know @Skylarking bangs on about the ACL a lot, but is completely correct. All of the VF owners with this, and other issues, need to push for the consumer guarantees that are available to them under law to be honoured.

Yep, i do bang on about ACL but i'm trying to pass on some lessons i've picked up that would help people avoid being burnt by sh!tty companies that have little desire to follow the law.

These days, ACL affords rather stong protection that people should make themselves aware of it... it's all on the web.

Honestly, i'm surprised that with this power steering issue, why so many peopel haven't gone down the ACL path towards a full purchase price fully refunded.

Even my Bother In-Law wouldn't hassle Bunnings for a full refund on his replacement mower when it failed on the thord time used and took it to some place for Bunnings to repair it.. In the interum i gave him my spare mower and he says it's great... Offered to go with him to bunnings and get his refund (after the mower was repaired) but he didn't want to have the hassles..

And i think that is what sits behine it all. People feel it is a big hassle.

Don't know about you but i'd go through the hassle to get a full purchase price refund on a couple of year old Commodore that has lost 30% of it's value and then look at another vehicel purchase. Maybe another commodore if i'm a glutton for punishement but may rinse and repete if there are issues... Just sayin...

And why only one person has lodged a complaint with DOTARS is beyound me. Everyone that has had an issue should be lodging a complaint with DOTARS and ACCC while also making a ACL major fault claim against the selling dealer for a full purchase priice refund (don't have to have it repaired).

As a final comment, last time i was in "Hardly Normal", they tried to sell me extended warranty but when i mentioned ACL, the sales perosn quickly changed his tune and agreed it was not needed stating some people like it and are happy to pay for it so their boss wants them to sell it... Waist of $$ but makes people sleep at night... Each to their own i guess.

 

[VS 5.0]

To me the age of the vehicle is irrelevant. The problem is a design fault. A fault that Holden acknowledged in 2014 (while all VFs were still under warranty) and developed a 'fix' for in early 2015. The fix has proven to be a temporary solution (which IMO they knew it would be) with a new steering rack with upgraded parts the permanent solution.
Basically, they should have recalled and replaced all early VF steering racks to rectify this design flaw back in 2014.

So besides from having a whinge on here, what are you going to do about it ?

@Skylarking, agree 100%. If have played the ACL card before. The change in attitude from people is incredible.

I find it ridiculous that people don't take advantage of the laws that are there to protect them and are happy to flush their hard earned down the toilet.....or worse.

 

[426Cuda]

True, but.....

- It shouldn't fail at such a "young" age, certainly not what a reasonable person would expect in terms of life span;

- Given the known issues, the dealers should be doing everything possible to rectify, no matter the cost to them;

- Belt from a a hydraulic steering system is a consumable. The issues with the electric steering, not so much.

Yeah, I totally agree VS.
My point about losing a belt, is refererring to the safety risks. But, I think the ability for the VF system to input steering commands (i.e. steer itself) may add a great deal more risk, if the wiring short circuits?

The age of the vehicle is totally relevant, particularly when it is happening so early in the vehicle life.....imho, even a 3 - 4 year old vehicle is young. My comment re "reasonable person" is a key aspect to the law that protects us all.

If this was happening on a 20 year old vehicle, different story. A reasonable person would not expect it to be faultless after that period of time.

In case my comments were posted in yiddish, it agrees that the situation is sh!t and Holden need to address it.

I know @Skylarking bangs on about the ACL a lot, but he/she is completely correct. All of the VF owners with this, and other issues, need to push for the consumer guarantees that are available to them under law to be honoured. Warranty or no warranty.....it doesn't make any difference. You are not lucky if Holden agree to rectify it outside of the manufacturer's warranty. They have just complied with their obligations under the law.

Stop diddling around, educate yourselves and demand action from Holden. We'e not talking about some cheap phone cover from China here. We're talkng about an expesnive machine with faults that could result in death or serious injury.

The ACCC website has all the information you need, including details of Holden's court enforceable undertaking that they will stop fcuking people over.

Go and challenge them.

^^100%

 

[426Cuda]

@Skylarking @VS 5.0
So, hypothetically speaking, what action would you suggest someone takes, if any, where there have been no steering fault codes?

 

[Skylarking]

@Skylarking @VS 5.0
So, hypothetically speaking, what action would you suggest someone takes, if any, where there have been no steering fault codes?

If the electronic system is designed reasonably well, then there will always be some fault code stored. Problem seems to be people don’t go straight to a dealer when a serious problem occurs so after a number of vehicle restarts (40?) the code is cleared.

So, as a minimum, one should take a picture of the center screen whenever a serious issue is flagged and ideally drive directly to the dealer service department and discuss it with them. Sadly this may not be an option for all, especially country folks.

If neither fault codes or center screen warnings ever occur, yet the wheel goes bonkers, that gets tough. Dealers service techs seem to be trained to follow flow charts so sometimes no fault codes = no fault. With such serious problems, people rightly don’t feel safe driving. In such no fault code cases, I’d likely leave the vehicle at the dealers to test drive for a week but as they are not experts in system design, I’d also want Holden engineering involved (they should add some form of ODB data logger, etc). Otherwise one could attach an internal camera and video each drive but then your doing their fault finding and risking lots while doing it.

On a side note, one thing that always annoyed me in days gone by was when techs cleared fault codes as part of the diagnostics process but didn’t provide me with a printout of what the codes were (for my records). Maybe it’s less relevant these days with the computer systems used at the dealers presumably storing historical data for your vehicle (but i’m not sure if that’s the case or not).

 

[VS 5.0]

@Skylarking @VS 5.0
So, hypothetically speaking, what action would you suggest someone takes, if any, where there have been no steering fault codes?

Given faults don't always log a code it can be tricky.

If someone has had the steering issue occur and no fault code logged, I would still be talking to Holden and seeking a remedy. Would be an interesting process without a code as @Skylarking comments, the service robots would be scratchng their heads coz no code(s).

However, there is evidence that this is a growing problem and I expect Holden would have recorded details of each of these claims, as long as the dealers are doing the right thing and logging their customers concerns. Perhaps challenging them on the basis that a recall was undertaken in the US due to safety concerns for the same issue and that they should be meeting their obligations to ensure that the product they sold you was safe.

I would also be reminding the dealer / Holden of their court enforceable undertaking to the ACCC and challenging them on that basis.

If they still refused to play ball, I would then be lodging a claim with your state's small claims tribunal (or equivalent), i.e., WA now uses the Magistrates Court for small claims under $10k. Costs are relatively nominal and legal representation is not allowed under this process, making access to the legal system available to all. Would Holden or the dealer be bothered apppearing to defend themselves ? If everyone that has the problem follows the same path, they would be drowing in court dates so I guess unlikely. This doesn't stop the court finding against them though. Unfotunately, while people don't know of the remedies availale to them or can't be bothered with the hassle, it will be harder for one individual to obtain a satisfactory result. Strength in numbers and all that.

To me it is similar to the Takata issue, i.e. a faulty, life threatening part. They knew the fault existed, yet refused to do anything about it until forced to by the ACCC to save a few bucks.

What to do if you haven't had the fault yet ? Not every airbag has blown up in someone's face, yet they are all getting replaced. Why should this be any different ? Again, if all of those who have had the fault have lodged with DOTARS etc as previously recommended by @Skylarking, then maybe a recall will eventuate. Unill they know there is a widespread issue, there is little they can do. But this relies on poeple doing something for the benefit of someone else. Often sadly lackking in today's world.

 

[Micaxe]

Had mine at Holden today. And thanks to no fault codes showing, nothing is getting done! However if Id like to part with $2219, I can have it done if Im worried. They were even going to charge me to look at it until customer care became involved. Was told after a few starts, codes would be gone and to bring it straight in if/when it does it next (assuming Im not wrapped around a tree).

Take a photo of the screen, if it happens again

 

[Handy Andy]

Have a 2013 VF SV6, about three months ago this PS fault happened to me. I wondered if I should be worrying about it immediately or was it just a one off. Then about a week ago it happened again, so I did some searching on the internet and on Just Commodores and found several threads including this one. I approached the local dealer and was informed that they couldn't look at it for 2 weeks. The vehicle was purchased from them by the original owner, then I purchased it from the OO privately at 55,000km. The vehicle has always been serviced by this dealer, except for the last 75,000km service (went else where as they couldn't fit it in before we were doing a long trip). So they have a very good knowledge of the car.

After being told there would be a 2 week wait I thought maybe it wasn't urgent. Yesterday (Sunday) morning the PS failed again and I thought I have to go and see the dealer first thing this morning to get this sorted, especially as we plan to go away for Easter.
Then last night it failed again, twice and within a space of 3 minutes. So this morning I took the car to the dealer first thing, strange how they have been able to find time to look at it this morning. Since then I have had 2 phone calls from them, first to tell me it is definitely the rack that needs replacing, then to get more details about my ownership. The car is out of warranty but I'm sure as hell not paying $1,300 to fix it. It only has 84,000km on it. If Holden say I have to pay then they will have to contend with the ACCC as I will fight them all the way. Especially when I read so many other have had the fault fixed free of charge. I will keep you informed.