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Sudden Loss of Power Steering WHEN DRIVING

Smashfist

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Also, if a Holden dealers stated the power steering failure was not a major fault and then indicated that they can not get a refund as the fault can be repaired, this is a misrepresentation of the ACL.

It's not quite so clear cut as that - the consumer does not get to pick whether a failure is a major or a minor. It's possible for a minor failure to cause a major component to require replacing and still be considered a minor failure under the ACL. It could be considered that poor connection of a connector requiring a steering rack to be replaced would be a minor failure assuming it could be remedied in a reasonable period of time.

Other examples I've read cite that things such as a minor failure causing the engine to need replacing (e.g. a hose failure that would cause an engine to overheat) would also be considered a minor failure, even though a major component requires replacement. The onus is on the manufacturer though that the repair needs to be completed in a reasonable period of time.

While the consumer does need to be aware of the ACL to push non-compliance when it comes to product support, the consumer does also need to be aware of the limitations under the ACL.

I'm involved in another ACL related issue at present - consumer is demanding their product be replaced however there's some damage to it the consumer is refusing to repair. Under the ACL the manufacturer is not required to exchange it (if the damage were repaired it would be another matter).

From a dealership perspective re: steering racks it would be much easier for Holden to implement a special cover warranty extension for steering racks. It would certainly reduce the hoops required for dealers to get paid for out of warranty repairs on these.
 

Immortality

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Well I think you are arguing semantics because anything that effects the safety of the vehicle in a drastic manner like steering failure is a major issue regardless of cost of the part in question.

Authorities may not be aware of the extent of the issue because they simply aren't aware of the numbers of failures because as mentioned before, most consumers aren't going to complain to the authorities. GM (and therefore Holden) have a poor track record when it comes to reporting safety issues and will try to hide said issues because they would rather the odd law suit than a full blown recall.
 

Skylarking

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@Smashfist

The ACL, as written, is not clear on the definition of minor or major faults so it’s up for interpretation. Obviously a manufacturer will have an interpretation that best suits their interest. In fact the manufacturer may even have produced reams of documents making their view sound official and legal, but it’s still just their view. It's not surprising, their self interested view would link componentry costs to the definition of major fault but it is simply wrong.

The reality is, where there is a disagreement on whether something is minor or major, only a judge can resolve that issue when he makes a determination. Such cases, almost always handled at a low level court, are case specific setting no precidents for other courts to follow. It’s only once an legal determination gets appealed, all the way to the top court, does it set a precident for other courts (and the general public) to follow. Only then do we all get a clearer interpret of a specific passage of legislation, in our case one that defines minor and major fault. Sadly that has not happened to my knowledge.

As it stands today, the law only mentions products, that is the whole purchased item, and discusses minor and major faults in that context. The law makes mention about how multiple repairs, or lengthy repair, can transform a minor fault into a major fault. These definitions are not as clear as i think they should be but it's rather important to note that there is no mention in ACL of product component replacements in relation to determining if an issue is a minor or major faults (from what i’ve read and it's been a while ago that i read it so memory may have faded a little).

What is without dispute, and clearly spelled out in ACL, is that it is the buyers choice of what remedy he chooses when he suffers a major fault with the product he has purchased. The purchaser can choose, repair, replacement or full refund. And this is why many businesses try and claim everything is a minor fault to avoid providing a full refund if requested by the purchaser. In doing, so they are breaking the law.

It should be somewhat evident by now, especially with the recent rulings impacting Ford (fined $M's) and Holden (court enforcable undertaking to follow ACL) that industry will try all sorts of things to bamboozal people into believing their interpretation of the law is correct and obviously they'll manouver the situation so that everything is a minor faut and thus no refund can be provided.

Anyway, a failing steering system in a 2 ton vehicle that can risk life and limb, would be considered a major fault by Joe public regardless of whether a 20 cent connector pin was the underlying cause... And if such a case was taken to court because a dealer or manufacturer would not consider the issue a major fault under ACL, it’s likely a judge would take the common view and not reward a company that is so sh!tty to knowingly avoid a voluntary recall on such a critical issue that impacts safety... Such behaviour sounds a little Ford like and we know how that turned out for them in court.

Since Holden has made an undertaking not to misrepresent the ACL to ACCC, I wonder how ACCC, or a judge for that matter, would feel with Holden interpreting and documenting major fault based on a component replacement basis rather than on a product basis (you know, the thing that is sold and discussed in law). The only purpose of breaking down a product into components is to be able to classify most faults as minor and thus avoid the consumer choosing their remedy... IF they are doing such, they are really skating on thin ice....

And if a manufacturer knowingly provides documents to its agents that define minor and major faults that they know, or should have known are wrong in law, it's likely that they fall foul of the misleading and deceptive conduct or unconscionable conduct provisions within ACL itself... And as we know, Holden made a court enforcable undertaking not to missrepresent ACL, which is why i say if they are still pushing this view, they are skating on thin ice...

In any case, if you have read some passage within the ACL legislation that can be interpreted differently, and clarifies minor and major faults based on repairability, then please enlighten me. Likewise, if you have some legal ruling that clarifies the legal definition and thus takes a different slant than the view I have expressed, again enlighten me. But, if what you have read is some manufacturers take on the law, i’m not interested in their read and interpretation of something I can read and interpret myself.

How anyone could consider a faulty steering system to be a minor fault, because the cheap poorly designed non replaceable connector is the root cause is beyonmd reason. It is a serious safety issue that impacts more than just VF owners and needs to be handled via mandatory recall.

And in i think it was my last post on this thread, i documented a list of people on this forum that had steering issues with their VF's so i'm wondering if any have actually reported the issue to DOTARS and if not why not...

But at the end of the day, i have provided enough links for those that are interested to educate themselves and take a reasonable view of what’s written in law that benefits them. If people choose to take a manufacturers interpretation that works against individuals, so be it, they are free to think what they like...

As a last note, i don't remember ACL making any mention that someone returning a faulty product must provide all packaging that the product came with OR that the product must be in as new/undamaged condition. The seller requiring such before providing a refund is not following ACL. Just imaging, VF power steering assistance failed at an awkward time and the driver crashed his vehicle, Holden then states he has to repair the vehicle before he can get the refund afforded in law for a major fault. That's absurd.. all that needs determination is whether the fault was major or minor which would likely require a judge to make such, the rest (undamaged, packaging, etc) is irrelevant in law.
 

RoganJosh

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@Smashfist

Just imaging, VF power steering assistance failed at an awkward time and the driver crashed his vehicle, Holden then states he has to repair the vehicle before he can get the refund afforded in law for a major fault. That's absurd.. all that needs determination is whether the fault was major or minor which would likely require a judge to make such, the rest (undamaged, packaging, etc) is irrelevant in law.

Holden would be up for the all the damages as well, not just to the power steering as they would be at fault. It wouldn't be a hard case to prove.
 

Skylarking

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^ exactly (though most people would simply make a claim against their insurance and be done with it as it's a simple process for many).
 

somfman

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Hi guys, another thing to consider (not related to ACL) is this. I had my rack replaced about three months ago and since that replacement the Auto Park feature has not worked. It would find an appropriate parking spot, beep, then ask that the vehicle be put into Reverse. On doing that the feature would error. At first I thought it was me, as the error stated something like 'Park Assist cancelled by steering'. I assumed that I had bumped the steering wheel before it had a chance to do it's thing, but no, it was consistent.

Had a regular service this week and asked them to look at it, along with an opinion that I wouldn't be paying for any repair as it had only become apparent after they'd worked on it. Turned out to be a calibration issue which they re-did free of charge. Might be worth mentioning to them to check the calibration if they are doing a rack change for you.
 

arronm

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Happened to me twice about a 2 1/2 years ago, I put a minor amount of conductive grease on all connections. And sealant on the connectors. Obviously use sparingly and only a tiny amount on each tab. Too much will short between contacts.

Been sweet ever since.

https://www.jaycar.com.au/conductive-carbon-grease-50g/p/NA1034

conductive-carbon-grease-50ggallery1-300.jpg
 
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wetwork65

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Holden would be up for the all the damages as well, not just to the power steering as they would be at fault. It wouldn't be a hard case to prove.
Just got the "service power steering lock" message for the second time on my Jul 14 build SSV wagon. Have called customer care but they have not called back yet and have called local dealer who were vague but said it may need a rack replacement. But will need to carry out some checks first at next available slot in 2 weeks.
Does this fall in line with other member's experiences that "service steering column lock" warning develops later to steering rack failure?
 
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Banjo79

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With respect, read the thread and any links provided by Skylarking (or others) and all sorts of knowledge will be revealed to he who searches....worked for me anyway.
 

wetwork65

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With respect, read the thread and any links provided by Skylarking (or others) and all sorts of knowledge will be revealed to he who searches....worked for me anyway.
Thanks for help. I didn't see a clear link in information between service steering column lock and eventual steering failure so must not have tried hard enough.
 
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