28 days until TUNE (advice on E85 and supporting mods please)

[dsuth77]

You're telling me now I can't compare the two because one is a ve?
You brought the times up not me.

Again who are you trying to convince here? I'm backing up what I'm saying with data, not just an ignorant opinion

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself you've been ripped.


I've tried to be helpful. I've posted how you should approach this. But you aren't willing to take any advice other than APS is rubbish.

I wish you good luck with your trip on Wednesday but I predict you getting laughed at in the tea room at lunch time followed by a loose strap special.

thats right its the like trying to compare an auto with a manual.

 

[Mack78]

I have a suggestion, Lets all leave this jack ass be and let him frame his next dyno sheet after APS get sick of listening to him scramble for the rwkw he is after. oh and if he had done all this research wouldn't he of know the difference 4 to1`s and diameters would make ??

 

[Grennan]

thats right its the like trying to compare an auto with a manual.

Actually my 13.6 is an automatic time.

Or if you would like to believe this video

At the dragstrip: Commodore v Falcon

Its a 13.1 (automatic). Now if you look at the VE, they are very similar times standard.

So you can pick whatever time/car combo ive thrown up. Either way, those times you posted up do not correspond with the claimed output of the cars.

As Strike says, MPH is MPH and it doesnt lie. So you can bang on about how GMM or whomever has the better package and youre butthurt because your figure isnt as high. But the MPH proves, their figures are about as good as toilet paper.

 

[dsuth77]

Firstly about power distribution from the GenIV accessory drive:

Tensioner: ~0 kW
AC: 4kW (5hp)
Alternator: 5-6kW (7-8hp)
Water Pump: 10kW (13hp)
Power Steering: 2-4kW (3-5hp)
Bear in mind that all these values are approximate to start with and they are for max draw, an AC will draw close to nothing when it's not active, as will an alternator. Traditional water pumps will draw more power the faster they are spinning (so the higher the engine is revving). Power Steering pumps only draw max power when being fully utilised.
So to back a claim that the VE v VF travelling in a straight line one is more powerful because it has an electric motor to assist steering is daft.

Pray tell what is the VF 6.0's new ECU? And in what way is the tune any different to Series II VE?

Power is exactly the same as VE Series II (L77), which as stock is same in manual or auto.

whilst a hydraulic power steering setup is not seeing max load until you are turning the steering wheel it is still turning a fixed displacement hydraulic pump which inturn is pumping the fluid around the circuit, this is enough of a loss for the car manufacturers to negate with electric power steering amongst other measures for improved fuel efficiency .
The gmmedia site has an indepth vf commodore development article I can only find bits and pieces of at the moment, it seems the whole article has been taken down but here is an article on holdens take VF COMMODORE: Steering a new path - motoring.com.au

I'm wrong about the ECU (As above I can't find the whole article) i was confusing it with the new bosch 9.0 ESP unit.

The VF has had tweaks to the engine and auto ecu VF COMMODORE: Power games - motoring.com.au

 

[PIR4TE]

whilst a hydraulic power steering setup is not seeing max load until you are turning the steering wheel it is still turning a fixed displacement hydraulic pump which inturn is pumping the fluid around the circuit, this is enough of a loss for the car manufacturers to negate with electric power steering amongst other measures for improved fuel efficiency .

No, not in a straight line, power is less than 0.5% engine output - negligible.

The gmmedia site has an indepth vf commodore development article I can only find bits and pieces of at the moment, it seems the whole article has been taken down but here is an article on holdens take VF COMMODORE: Steering a new path - motoring.com.au

Don't believe anything motoring journalists say, speak the engineers and motor builders and top tuners. Also perhaps take advice from people who really know this engine back to front and are pushing GM blueprints to the limit such as on forums like this.

I'm wrong about the ECU (As above I can't find the whole article) i was confusing it with the new bosch 9.0 ESP unit.

Stability Control, not ECU.

The VF has had tweaks to the engine and auto ecu VF COMMODORE: Power games - motoring.com.au

Not the L77, no.

Anyway mate, like most of participating in this thread, just thought you wanted some input and knowledge, guess we were all wrong, good luck with your car.

 

[dsuth77]

No, not in a straight line, power is less than 0.5% engine output - negligible.



Don't believe anything motoring journalists say, speak the engineers and motor builders and top tuners. Also perhaps take advice from people who really know this engine back to front and are pushing GM blueprints to the limit such as on forums like this.






Stability Control, not ECU. I thought thats what I said? (I was confusing the ECU with Electronic Stability Program/Control unit)



Not the L77, no.

Anyway mate, like most of participating in this thread, just thought you wanted some input and knowledge, guess we were all wrong, good luck with your car.

Speak to Dale Patterson Motorsport 03 9338 6492


PIR4TE I respect your INPUT and KNOWLEDGE thats delivered in a civil manner, thats why I took your advice. But I don't take kindly to the unnecessary abuse of other participants, thanks for your time

I'll post an update of how it goes with the tuner

 

[dsuth77]

Info from this forum page 4 http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vf/223671-vf-ssv-redline-ute-4.html

Hey guys and gals,

It's been a little while since I last updated this thread and I have some nice updates on the ute!

1 7/8" HM Headers Extractors
200cell Outlaw Cats
3" HM Headers Catback
VCM OTR
Tuned by BTA Motorsports - 287.2rwkw on E85

https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta/photos/pcb.823378921047957/823378847714631/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta?hc_location=timeline

 

[Mack78]

stop worrying about dyno numbers.

 

[PIR4TE]

Info from this forum page 4 http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vf/223671-vf-ssv-redline-ute-4.html

Hey guys and gals,

It's been a little while since I last updated this thread and I have some nice updates on the ute!

1 7/8" HM Headers Extractors
200cell Outlaw Cats
3" HM Headers Catback
VCM OTR
Tuned by BTA Motorsports - 287.2rwkw on E85

https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta/photos/pcb.823378921047957/823378847714631/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta?hc_location=timeline

It is possible without changing valve events, just not probable. Several tuners set the high water mark with loads of timing on e85 at 285rwkw BTW, just not probable as intake chokes intake at 5300 due to lack of lift. That's not something you can magically circumvent with a few modified cells on a dyno table or should you accept as a statement of fact in a magazine or on a website, you need to spend real time with the car and a laptop with a tuning strategy based on experience to leverage about 230 actual CFM.
The example in your link is just not possible on unopened GenIV 6.0 under ~6000 RPM. To get 285rwkw @ 5000 RPM the engine is 130% VE... but with air cleaner and branded exhaust that's some powerful magic! Home of the $10,000 titanium catback and pommy style staged enhancement levels for rich dummies. This is obvious a mistake, it smells like Stage Four BS.
Understand that the only physical (mechanical) restriction for an L77 to reliably crack 300rwkw is valve events, not which brand of component. Specifically if you put an LS2 or LS3 camshaft in it will do the trick with simple (inexpensive) bolt-ons, otherwise to retain AFM and the option of VVT you increase lift at valve via rockers to get same lift and duration. Like I did.
You don't need an OTR, you don't need aftermarket headers or brand name catback to get 300+atw.
Also as a postscript you don't need 300rwkw to go sub 5 seconds 0-100k in our car either.

 

[Grennan]

Info from this forum page 4 http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vf/223671-vf-ssv-redline-ute-4.html

Hey guys and gals,

It's been a little while since I last updated this thread and I have some nice updates on the ute!

1 7/8" HM Headers Extractors
200cell Outlaw Cats
3" HM Headers Catback
VCM OTR
Tuned by BTA Motorsports - 287.2rwkw on E85

https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta/photos/pcb.823378921047957/823378847714631/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta?hc_location=timeline

Yeah, so the difference here is:

Exhaust, OTR and Dyno.

You say you came here for knowledge and input. But you blatantly ignore any advice or knowledge because it doesnt tell you what you want to hear. Time and time again you post this nonsense about what other cars with different tuners and dynos are making.

You just dont seem to get it do you?

DYNOS MEAN NOTHING.

That sounds like the happiest dyno in dyno land.

In the beginning we tried being nice to you and explaining to you what could have caused this but youve just heard "APS IS BAD" and run a ####ing mile pulling dyno figures out of your arse.

Pull your head in.