28 days until TUNE (advice on E85 and supporting mods please)

[duaned]

287rwkw my arse! They must have fed that dyno some anti-depressants as that is a high reading!

 

[Grennan]

Well todays Wednesday.

Was Luis in?

 

[dsuth77]

287rwkw my arse! They must have fed that dyno some anti-depressants as that is a high reading!

I agree. I posted the examples (with a mainline dyno) to show that on forums there are so many biased conflicting opinions and very few facts. Same goes for the dozen or so reputable tuners, I have spoken to at length on the phone and in person. At the end of the day you have to trust someone. I understand dyno printouts can be manipulated thats why I posted mine (I smelt a rat).

I spoke to Frank at APS he is clearing the workshop on fri afternoon for me and this is what he said : engine light is likely to be the cats not lighting up.
the aggressiveness of the auto is due to so much extra torque. I told him I wasn't happy ( I did'nt mention the way It drives I'd prefer to do that in person)

I am also booked in to the local tuner on fri morning to: check the engine light and if possible , get him to look at the tune, and run it up on the dyno (for comparison purposes when I question the torque figures with APS) and to get his opinion on the feel of the car

I plan on having the intake changed to the OTR as a minimum

 

[07GTS]

u will probably find looking at dyno sheets from any dyno what ever it reads if u forget about the end figure and look at the actual gain most cars will be pretty close, a higher reading dyno will start higher and end higher and so forth with a lower reading dyno will start lower and end lower but the gain will be the bout the same, to me the dyno is there to show me im putting my money in the right spot and its making more power/torque than it was and thats it...

 

[dsuth77]

u will probably find looking at dyno sheets from any dyno what ever it reads if u forget about the end figure and look at the actual gain most cars will be pretty close, a higher reading dyno will start higher and end higher and so forth with a lower reading dyno will start lower and end lower but the gain will be the bout the same, to me the dyno is there to show me im putting my money in the right spot and its making more power/torque than it was and thats it...

thats my understanding also

 

[Grennan]

Yes and no.

Dynos can be manipulated to exaggerate the gains.

Strapped the car tight on the base run and loosening it on the final power run to exagerate the power gain is quite easy and widespread. On Dyno Dymanics dynos, the temperate also plays a huge part and can greatly affect the outcome. There are several ways that the tuner can either bullshit the dyno or simply make a mistake which will have an end effect on the power reading.

This makes the end user feel better for laying down X Thousand dollars. But also, when you show your mates, post on forums etc, the figure looks great for X workshop. Lets take this thread for example. A 250rwkw figure is nowhere near as impressive as a 280rwkw graph.

Its widespread with workshops that offer packages because theyre aimed at meeting a certain power range. If the car doesnt make X power for the package, the customer asks what the hell.

Dynos are great for a few things, in particular the tuning process. Because you get a good look at the Air to Fuel ratios over the entire RPM range, this helps with getting a good mix between economy and supply to the engine. You also get to see if the power curve is nice and smooth.

The dyno figure is only as good and as honest as your tuner.

Frankly, the lower the figure the more I tend to trust a workshop. Going to my previous point about the 250rwkw v 280rwkw graphs. Yes, the 250rwkw shop could just be ****. But in the case of bolt on tuning, there is absolutely nothing secret squirrel about it. Its a simple as loading a generic tune and tweaking based on AFRs. There is very little in the way of trial and error. They are done a million times a day and if you #### it up you shouldnt be in charge of a roll of sticky tape. So im more inclined to believe that the 250rwkw workshops a) has a good enough reputation for their work that they dont need to prove their figures b) is not just going to tell you what you want to hear c) can be trusted.

Now with that being said. Im not saying all workshops that has a 310 package for example is manipulating their dynos so that the cars come out with 310, but many of them do and if youre basing everything of a power figure, youre going to learn a very expensive lesson sooner or later.

 

[07GTS]

i have hurd alot say that dyno dynamics always read high which to me comes down to the tuner i have only ever been on a dyno dynamics and have always read low compared to others with same mods, but also what my tuner has is a weather station that updates live to the dyno every 3 seconds which he had to get it because durin a day of tuning the weather would mess with the results and was harder to tune so once installed it made tuning more consistent and reliable that u are making better changes, it is easy to mess with results tho so u must trust the tuner...

 

[Grennan]

i have hurd alot say that dyno dynamics always read high which to me comes down to the tuner i have only ever been on a dyno dynamics and have always read low compared to others with same mods, but also what my tuner has is a weather station that updates live to the dyno every 3 seconds which he had to get it because durin a day of tuning the weather would mess with the results and was harder to tune so once installed it made tuning more consistent and reliable that u are making better changes, it is easy to mess with results tho so u must trust the tuner...

A Mainline Dyno has that weather capability in it by default.

A Dyno Dynamics dyno is more susceptible to manipulation and or error.

Thats not to say it cannot be done on a Mainline, its just not as easy.

Every dyno is different, every tuner is different.

Thats what I continually say, trust the power figure as much as you trust Rolf Harris in a day care center. Go by how the car feels and the MPH on the track.

 

[AirStrike]

A Mainline Dyno has that weather capability in it by default.

A Dyno Dynamics dyno is more susceptible to manipulation and or error.

Thats not to say it cannot be done on a Mainline, its just not as easy.

Every dyno is different, every tuner is different.

Thats what I continually say, trust the power figure as much as you trust Rolf Harris in a day care center. Go by how the car feels and the MPH on the track.

Dyno is a dyno, they can all be played with. I think sometimes people like being run up on a mainline so they can say 'oooo but mainline reads lower' when someone mentions figures.

This is why I like MPH, doesn't lie and can't be fudged.

 

[torana355]

I think a 1/4 mile run is in order for the OP, lets see what kind of MPH its getting. As others have said MPH doesn't lie. My car got a fairly low reading on the CHE dyno in comparison to dynos in other workshops but i trust that im actually making that power. I would rather have a low reading dyno sheet and a 12 sec quarter mile time then a happy dyno figure and running mid 13's.