Fuel injector failure

[ssblack]

Fuel injectors should last the life of the vehicle. About the only issue I’ve had with them on a different brand of vehicle is chemically dirty fuel that passes through the filter which gummed up the injectors themselves causing the service lamp to light up. An ultrasonic clean of all injectors along with tank and fuel line flush solved the problem in my case.

On rare occasions an individual injector fault is not unheard off. That being the case, if you’re having all injectors replaced under Holden’s good will (hate that term), then it’s obviously not a one off. It’s likely a bigger issue with a faulty batch of injectors as has been suggested to you.

If it is indeed a bad batch, which surely can be tracked to specific engine numbers, “good will” in my view would be a recall of all impacted vehicles and a timely fix before the problem actually manifests itself.

As for the electrical causes of injector faults, who knows... but I’d have thought an injector coil will either short (low resistance) or go open circuit (no continuity) so I’m not sure how an injector can go high resistance other than being built to wrong specs. On that front, I’d also assume GM test incoming injectors for resistance, inductance, flow rate, etc, to ensure they are matched to the ecu electronics and the designed engine power.

But I’d also like to hear from those in the know about such injector failures and whether it imay be a common issue on a batch of LS3s

son just had his vf2 redline injectors replaced at 70k no fuss whats goin on holden?

 

[Skylarking]

son just had his vf2 redline injectors replaced at 70k no fuss whats goin on holden?

Poor quality control of components with poor management handling of resulting issues resulting in what seems inconsistent dealer management of such problems.

Good that your son’s injecters were fixed gratis and without drama.

 

[Anthony121]

Poor quality control of components with poor management handling of resulting issues resulting in what seems inconsistent dealer management of such problems.

Really??

 

[ShakeyCan]

Evening all.
This week I had the "Service ESP" message displayed, Malfunction light come on (mix of solid and flashing) and a definite misfiring especially under load. Took it to the dealer today and they said that one of the injectors was failing. They suggested replacing them all and had contacted Holden to have it all done at their expense. Kudos to the dealer! (I'm not a fan of dealer servicing, but I've got to hand it to them this time for doing the right thing). They didn't hear back by the end of the day, but they expect a positive response on Monday. They also have the injectors in hand ready to go.
Looking forward to having this sorted early next week as I reckon there has been some misfiring for a little while at speed.

UPDATE: Holden agreed with the dealer and all the injectors have now been replaced. So much better!

 

[Skylarking]

Poor quality control of components with poor management handling of resulting issues resulting in what seems inconsistent dealer management of such problems.

Really??

Yeah, I should proof read before posting but I don’t think your questioning grammar here

Petrol injectors have been around for more than 40 years, so to see such failures, they can only be attributed to a lack of component quality control at either Holden or Bosch’s end. The only other possible reason left would be Holden cost cutting resulting in cheaper injectors being designed and installed, just to save some cents per injector. But again, testing of any design change along with ongoing quality control should have picked up that there is a problem well before many customers would even see such issues. Maybe the testing phase for changed suppliers/components itself was cost cut Hm, want some cheaper rockers with your LS3

And, sad as it is, some owners have been paying for one off injectors to be fixed at the dealer service department. This can be an indication that either a service bulletin didn’t correctly outline this issue or one simply didn’t exist. Alternatively it could be that it took too long for Holden to pull its finger out and write one up. Service bulletins are meant to aid the dealer network but if they are lacking in detail or don’t exist, such lacking support can only be placed at the foot of Holden management as it’s simply a resourcing issue. So if a company can’t react to such F.U’s quick enough, the departments have been ‘trimed’ to far - management’s fault!

Yeah, some speculation on my part. But it’s all based on the important fact that Holden is an ISO certified manufacturer which carries a lot of processes with such certification so they are able to learn from and fix their sh!t so such doesn’t happen again.

Luckily, this injector failure issues seems like it’s better addressed now and owners are being looked after. However, the underlying cause can only be Holden’s doing, through not ensuring what is designed, manufactured and delivered to the factory is actually OK to be installed in the cars they built. And Holden management bear the responsibility for such situations.

So, what of those who have previously paid for just one injector to be replaced while having no idea of the wider issue, bore any awareness that Holden are replacing all injectors now. Do you think Holden will search them out and offer to fix the lot or wait for them to experiance another failure thinking this may direct them to a dealer. But such owners would expect to be paying if their last experiance was anything to go by. As such they may be more inclined to go to a 3rd party repairer as they are cheaper (and Holden wins). Guess it’s business 101 if the cost ends elsewhere

 

[3rspecB]

When I last checked GM Holden assembled cars and GM Holden Engine Operations designed/built the HFV6 for VF. HEO (Holden Engine Operations) haven't designed/built V8s for a while now.
The LS3's are built/assembled in Mexico and run under GM Powertrain division, not Holden. Holden are a customer just like Chevrolet, Cadilac, HSV etc were when they used the LS3 in their vehicles. Component and supplier changes are made by the homeroom not the customer. So instead of blaming Holden, blame GM Powertrian in the USA as they approved the change in rocker supplier and approved injector supplier for the LS3. No matter how much testing Holden did with the LS3, if the homeroom changes a component supplier mid/end life cycle like they did with the rockers, how is it Holdens fault ? And no, GM Powertrain in Nth America didnt advise its customers they changed rocker supplier. Holden wasn't the only customer who had rocker failures.

It's great that you are passionate but come on, every chance you get you bag Holden. Sometimes it's not their fault.

 

[Skylarking]

@3rspecB, people didn’t buy their commodore from GM Powertrain so it’s not relevant that the engines was built in Mexico using components supplied all over the globe. Nor is it relevant which company’s back room deal changed a component supplier mid life without notifying their customers.

Truth is we bought our commodores from a Holden dealer who took our money, some of which directly benefited Holden Australia.

In my case, Holden Australia even went as far as advertising how the Motorsport was GM level 3 track certified just like the corvette. It all seemed to be bollocks as engine parts were changed and I suspect no recertification was done to ensure the changed kit continued to meet L3 track certifications.

So, to have one case where the rockers failed on driving out the dealers driveway for the first time is rather bad. And it’s of no comfort that it was actually GM Powertrain USA that fcuked up. Doubt this person who was left looking down at a puddle of oil under his car cared which company in the web of companies that most would describe as GM/H was at the root of the problem.

Luckily I didn’t have such a mishap, I just suffered a long delay in getting my vehicle delivered.

Holden Australia can of course hold GM Powertrain to account via better subcontracts which allow withholding of payment or charge back for fixes they perform on GMPD’s behalf. But that would likely go against the tax minimisation mechanisms Holden uses to inflate its costs and thus reduce its taxable income to zero funnelling untaxed cash back to the Bahamas - a win win as far as GM is concerned

So when something goes wrong, it’s a Holden dealer that is the first port of call for any owner when looking for a fix. Then if things aren’t sorted by a dealer, the next avenue available is to contact Holden Australia via HCC. If that yields no joy, the last avenue is to look what legal recourse one has (If a commodore owner called a USA company, they wouldn’t even give us the time of day but if they did it would be wrong).

Legally, the buck stops with the selling dealer or with Holden Australia as our Australian law does not have jurisdiction to hold a foreign company liable. So, though the company structure and where responsibilities lie that you posted is rather interesting, it’s whole heartedly irrelevant.

As for bagging Holden , I’m an equal opportunity bagger as I’m brand agnostic. What I’ve said for Holden holds equally true for any other brand (all of the, basically) that has service, warranty or recalls issues.

However, Merc dealers do make nice coffee for you while you wait, much better coffee than the self serve at Holden dealers. But as i’m not a coffee drinker, I couldn’t give two hoots.

To end, I must say, I loved taking the Motorsport out on a short 50km drive this afternoon. In that short blast down the road, all Holden sins were quickly forgotten

 

[Mammal]

son just had his vf2 redline injectors replaced at 70k no fuss whats goin on holden?

I checked all mine today. All within 14 ohms but the redline runs rough. The other car runs smooth and a couple of those injectors were about 15 ohms

Bit of a novice at this forum stuff ! Just a question you said/typed "checked all mine today"! How? I also like most have service esp message on my 4th injector 2x#2,1x#1&1x unknown 25k still under warranty ! What Todo ? Read a few other posts ! What are your thoughts?

I checked all mine today. All within 14 ohms but the redline runs rough. The other car runs smooth and a couple of those injectors were about 15 ohms

 

[Anthony121]

Bit of a novice at this forum stuff ! Just a question you said/typed "checked all mine today"! How? I also like most have service esp message on my 4th injector 2x#2,1x#1&1x unknown 25k still under warranty ! What Todo ? Read a few other posts ! What are your thoughts?

I have a multimeter.

 

[jono67]

Bit of a novice at this forum stuff ! Just a question you said/typed "checked all mine today"! How? I also like most have service esp message on my 4th injector 2x#2,1x#1&1x unknown 25k still under warranty ! What Todo ? Read a few other posts ! What are your thoughts?

G'day mammal and welcome. If you are up to your 4th injector, you need all of them replaced, especially if you have had #2 replaced twice!!!

I'd ask your Holden dealer to check with head office to see about replacing the whole lot because you know of others (us) that have had the same issues and Holden have been doing just that. If they don't, call Holden Customer Care on 1800 46 465 336 (between 8.00am and 7.00pm Mon to Fri) and explain to them whats been happening and that you know other customers have had all injectors replaced due to faults with the original ones.